Baldwin the Merciful's: Treasure of Chimera Cove (ACG) (Inactive)

Game Master baldwin the merciful

Chimera Cove lies at the southern tip of a rocky and storm-swept cape projecting into the Inner Sea, in a no-man’s-land between the great nations of Cheliax and Andoran. The three islands sitting just off shore do little to block the sea’s relentless swells, but they do effectively anchor the persistent coastal fog, making local navigation perilous. The fishermen who settled this grim seashore decades ago have a knack for maneuvering their catboats to and from their spindly docks, but no merchant ships dare use the treacherous cove, even with a launch. Few outsiders find the settlement’s steady decline in recent years surprising, wondering only at why the place was ever founded.


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Evil GM
Grenadel "Rena" Aeleanir wrote:

You guys realize they are "atop the far wall"?

You guys realize the bottom of the doors are 10ft above water level?

And we only need a 10ft strip straight th through. From that height, they won't see us.

I think the three dimensional aspect is being lost and adding to the confusion.

For clarification, the guards are walking on stone ledge/ramp that encompasses the sides of the cavern that lead upward to the far wall.

Previous Post:

To either side of the cave mouth, stone ramps five feet wide rise out of the water and cling to the cavern walls, gradually rising upward to end at a height of thirty five feet at the far wall. At that wall the west ramp opens into another chamber from which faint light emanates. Thick ropes hang into the water here and there, some anchored to rusting cleats set into the walls, others lying in loose coils.

Dominating the far wall are gigantic wooden double doors, twenty-five feet in height and forty feet in width, composed of planks which could be ships’ timbers and are heavily reinforced with rusting steel. The top of the doors are flush with the top of the wall, while the bottom is ten feet above water level. The many barnacles indicate the door is typically submerged to a depth of twenty feet. No hinges are visible, making it appear the doors open inward.

Standing atop the far wall to either side of the giant doors is a pair of wooden and steel contraptions which resemble small siege engines. A stout wooden base supports a pivoting mechanism enclosing an open chute ten feet long and one foot in width, with attached gears used to adjust the angle of the chute.


Female Elf Investigator 8 | 62/62 | AC 21/16/15 | CMD 22 | F 3/R 12/W 7 | Init +6 | Perc +17/+19 traps

How high up, if at all, is alleged ledge?


Evil GM
Grenadel "Rena" Aeleanir wrote:
How high up, if at all, is alleged ledge?

See post above, I added the relevant information.


Male Gnome Arcanist (occultist) 8 | HP 44/44 | AC 15 (19 w/Mage Armor) | +5 fort +6 ref +8 will | +9 init +8 perc | Resource Tracker

So we should be able to walk up the ramp to where the guards are. An illusion could make the wall and ramp look like they are displaced by 5' which may well let us get up unobserved. Obviously at the top we'd likely have a fight on our hands. Or we could try to sneak past, invisible.


Evil GM

Ok are you doing an illusion and walking up the ramp or are you going to remain in the center and try to walk/swim under the door without detection?

What Rena is trying to explain is the doors don't go into the water (when the water has been lowered). Therefore you can walk or swim right under the doors and possible avoid detection/combat in it's entirety if you stick underwater and stay in the middle of the opening. Remember the doors are 40 feet wide and the bottom is 10 feet above the water.

Granted you do not know what is on the other side of the door.


Male Gnome Arcanist (occultist) 8 | HP 44/44 | AC 15 (19 w/Mage Armor) | +5 fort +6 ref +8 will | +9 init +8 perc | Resource Tracker

Ahh that's what I was missing, I thought we couldn't get through them. Yes I'm happy to bypass them. An illusion to make the water look extra murky should help.


Evil GM

super busy today,this evening, and tomorrow morning, so I'm probably not going to get a substantive post up until late tomorrow morning.


Evil GM

FYI I will not be on until tomorrow late afternoon.


Female Elf Investigator 8 | 62/62 | AC 21/16/15 | CMD 22 | F 3/R 12/W 7 | Init +6 | Perc +17/+19 traps

I'm probably AFK with an all day conference.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5

Will get a post up soon. Busy start to work, but I'll likely buff and smash.


Male Gnome Arcanist (occultist) 8 | HP 44/44 | AC 15 (19 w/Mage Armor) | +5 fort +6 ref +8 will | +9 init +8 perc | Resource Tracker

Not read it yet but somebody posted a war priest guide.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5

No posts tonight?
Wahhhh.


Evil GM

I won't be able to get a post up until I get home, even then I may be pressed for time.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5

I read the new Warpriest guide on the board and agree with most of it, but was surprised the was no reccomendation for a two handed smasher type build. That is what I am going for with Xavier. One thing I note is that Human is EASILY the best race in the same way an ELF is the best Magus.

Being able to get a 1/6th return on favored class bonus for 3 extra combat feats is DAMN awesome.
Not quite as good as the elf getting 1/6th for extra Arcanas (cause arcana's are better than feats) but still very good.

Dwarves are a close second since they can get +5 racial to saves with a feat and a trait and they get bonuses to CON and WIS. Same reason they make the best inquisitors.

Power Wise I actually think this class is LESS so than the inquisitor Offensively.
Because the inquisitor gets Judgement, which applies to EVERTHING he fights and is a free resource ON TOP of his spells.

The Warpriest Can swift spells but this makes him able to NOVA through his spells faster.
I would say the inquisitor actually has better spell endurance AND a better list (early access to Deadly Juggernaught and the Warpriest can't ever cast Righteous Vigor)

The skills suck but the better AC is nice. As is the swift action heals (which burn more spells for a CLW because the pseudo LOH sucks)


Evil GM

Thanks for the highlights Xavier.

From the DM POV here what I see as challenges for DMs; I'm one who mostly DMs. This is irrespective of the ACG, it really follows any type of "new" material that gets incorporated into a game.

I understand Paizo needs to make money, it is business, so they need to produce new material that is all fine. It really comes down to balance, scale, and workload for the DM. DMs want the players to be happy, but keeping up with the Jones creates lots of extra work for the DM to keep the game balanced and in scale, especially, when running previously published adventures. New builds, feats, skills, spells are great but place those new characters in an AP like Council of Thieves that was published in 2009/2010 and you'd blow right through that scenario as written. Thus, the DM has to re-balance nearly every encounter to keep the game in scale (including having to familiarize himself with the new material and assimilating that material into game.) This creates a tremendous amount of time and pressure and then when playing in an online forum this additional work in my opinion is one factor in why DMs disappear and games ultimately fail. Those same DMs that disappear or stop running games maybe excellent table top DMs, but online gaming is a different animal, it takes more time because it's continuous gaming rather than once a week or every other week. One of the hardest things to do as a DM is to say "No" to player requests which often leads to PMs that plead cases, or requests for exceptions, or accusations that it's not RAW, and sometimes threads appear that fan the DM based on the ruling.

Like everything there are multiple POVs on what creates a balanced and scaled encounter. Although ultimately there is a vast gap between the the time the player needs to put into his/her character and the time the DM has to put into the entire game preparation.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5

Absolutely agreed.

In fact since finding you as a DM I have dropped every Play by Post game because I have never found a DM with Sufficent system mastery and good enough maps and great story telling.

As a player who loves new options, I understand what I can and can't do is wholly based on my ability to keep things within the context of the game and not create undue workload when I am allowed to try a new set of rules of mechancis.

That's why I spoiler references whenever I think I am doing something that you might want to check. Less work for you and saves arguments.

I can see how some players who only want to dominate encounters can be a pain in the arse, particularly ones who constantly PM or stretch rules interpretaitons etc.

What's allowed is DM's call.

Fortunately you and I seem to mesh well enough that we don't really have in game dramas (since I know not to argue with a DM), since I want the help tell the story rather than simply roll high numbers.

Internet Hug.


Female Elf Investigator 8 | 62/62 | AC 21/16/15 | CMD 22 | F 3/R 12/W 7 | Init +6 | Perc +17/+19 traps

Rena is hosed. Imagine, a non-optimized... do-hiccy.


Evil GM

Thanks for internet hug.

My position is geared solely from the DM POV and the challenges new material poises. I'm sure this extended back to the ole Advanced DnD days. As a DM, links and spoilers help reduce the workload which everyone here does that.


Male Stats: Init +5, AC 31,FF 27, T 16 fort +11, Ref +10, Will +12, 84/84 HP, perception +16, CMD 30, 40 grapple, 40 trip

Maybe I'm just mean, but I have no problem saying 'no'. Doesn't matter if it's my home game or pbp. If I'm running the game, I'm running the game. Granted, I'm rather lenient as a rule and allow in plenty of stuff, but if I draw a line, a player can plead all they like, but I won't budge and I don't have a problem with it.

I'd say Paizo has done a better job of avoiding power creep than WotC did with 3.x. This is not to say it hasn't happened, but it's been fairly slow, and if you keep an eye out for the edge cases you can keep it under control.

As I see it, you pretty much always have to adjust encounters for you group unless:
A) You do a 15 point buy
B) Have only 4 players
C) have players which play with minimal system mastery and tactical acumen


Male Gnome Arcanist (occultist) 8 | HP 44/44 | AC 15 (19 w/Mage Armor) | +5 fort +6 ref +8 will | +9 init +8 perc | Resource Tracker

As ever full spell casters with the wiz/sorc spell list are OP. Even with a likely sub optimal school specilzation like illusion. Given enough splat books there's bound to be something like loathesome veil in there.

I don't think its actually the class mechanics so much as the spells, although I'd be the first to agree that +2 DC or CL is a strong ability.


Evil GM

I will say from DM'ing a couple cool resources out there that greatly alleviate DM workload and can give most encounters a quick boost are produced by Raging Swann Press (RSP) and Rite Publishing (RP). They have a few inexpensive booklets that are drop in ready, so it saves a boatload of time. RSP's 100% Crunch series deals with a specific monster type and really beefs them up. RP has a terrific 101 series several are quite good. The " 101 Not So Simple Monster Template" and "101 Hazards and Disasters" live on my computer desktop.


Male Gnome Arcanist (occultist) 8 | HP 44/44 | AC 15 (19 w/Mage Armor) | +5 fort +6 ref +8 will | +9 init +8 perc | Resource Tracker

I've come across some GMs banning everything but CRB + APG in an attempt to combat the power creep. Thing is a CRB wizard with a 15pt build and below average wealth can still trivalize encounters.

Some of the other lower tier classes feel like they need the options in the new books by comparison.

My impression is games without full casters tend to be easier on the GM but the party can get roadblocked more easily.


Male Stats: Init +5, AC 31,FF 27, T 16 fort +11, Ref +10, Will +12, 84/84 HP, perception +16, CMD 30, 40 grapple, 40 trip

Yeah, you are completely correct that new stuff is not needed to break a game. A high level, well built and played caster can break things quite well enough.

I generally play martials because I prefer to actually work with the weak classes and wring as much effect out of them that I can. Were I do actually try to optimize a caster, I would likely trivialize games.


Female Elf Investigator 8 | 62/62 | AC 21/16/15 | CMD 22 | F 3/R 12/W 7 | Init +6 | Perc +17/+19 traps

I think the balance starts to shift from fighters/rogues to full casters as levels increase.

But, the mid/high level caster's abilities are sort of what Baldwin alludes to when he says he sets the scene, controls the map. He/She's the parties way of equalizing that or changing the map into the party's favor. Battlefield control.

And fodder usually has a wisdom/will save weakness.

To be brutally honest, it's stupid player vs. smart player.

Point buy and constraining players/characters through forces impotence is annoying. I want to "feel" my character is exceptional, not statistically because the world is 10's all across.

I never apply to a 15pt buy game. I only play in 20pt games if I enjoy the DM's style.

Just while we're chatting, nothing to do with power creep... Aasimar piss me off. :)


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5

That's cool, I never play non-standard races cause they are too powerful. Me. Of all people.

And I am in the discussion thread on that new War priest guide and the guy who wrote it is telling me my build is weak.

*sarcasm*
How rude!


Female Elf Investigator 8 | 62/62 | AC 21/16/15 | CMD 22 | F 3/R 12/W 7 | Init +6 | Perc +17/+19 traps

Haven't looked at discussion, but I think many define "tank" as absorb potential damage. Meaning draw attacks (and be missed) and if you're hit, have high HP.

Basically, you keep the baddies busy... doing damage, but more importantly, preventing others from being targeted.

That said, they may want the character to carry a shield to maximize AC... or you'd be spending your abilities healing yourself. Your AC would be sweet @ 24-26?

And, my bug eating pugilist... might have been better served with higher Dexterity and slightly lower Strength. Hit more, deal more damage consistently. And, be hit less! Not criticizing, just "what if".

I understand the Dragon Style synergy and added damage, but... ti's all for nothing if the guy can't connect over and over.

I'd like to see a Brawler with 14 Str, 20 Dex and maybe a 16 Con. Weapon Finesse of course. "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee". Then send him into the Broken Skull. Still might die.

I may need to try it, if the opportunity arises. Hopefully not because my current character dies!


Female Elf Investigator 8 | 62/62 | AC 21/16/15 | CMD 22 | F 3/R 12/W 7 | Init +6 | Perc +17/+19 traps

@Xavier - Don't worry what the meanie says... You've got a team! No, a task force!

He's probably gonna die alone. We'll die together!


Evil GM

I'm in a 17 pt buy with a TWF rogue that is pretty fun but I agree 15 pts is hard to develop a solid build.

I've no idea what they were thinking with the Aasimar race. No negative race trait, resistance to 3 elements, spell-like abilities, and darkvision. Don't get me going on the alternative race traits.

Any well built, well played class can break the game it's just certain classes make it easier.

The proliferation of classes with meaningful swift spell actions compared to the base classes tips some builds, it has made the quicken feat nearly pointless. (Don't worry Xavier I'm not picking on you) It makes it a bit more challenging.


Male Stats: Init +5, AC 31,FF 27, T 16 fort +11, Ref +10, Will +12, 84/84 HP, perception +16, CMD 30, 40 grapple, 40 trip

The problem with the idea of a dex built brawler is that AC is IMO an all or nothing business. You either get it really high so that getting hit is a remote chance, or it is fairly pointless. If I had the build you talk about, I would have 3 more AC. Woo hoo. That would have minimal effect to be quite honest. At this level a 22 AC is pretty much just as crappy as a 19 AC. If I could get somewhere near 30 we might be talking, but a few more points is just chasing your tail.

I'm known in PFS circles in my area as a tank builder, with most of my characters haveing very good AC (if a melee build). By 7th level if I wanted to be tanky, I would likely have an AC close to 30.

Bug is built to be a glass cannon. It's really the only way I see brawlers being worth anything since they just cannot do enough defense to be any better than half baked, so chasing such is a fool's errand.

If crane style had not been nerfed into a smelly pile of goo, perhaps you could make a brawler who could float like a butterfly, but as it is, the option is not present.

I suppose what I could so, if I wanted to be tanky, is dip a fighter level, an go with full plate and shield. It's far more likely that I would dip master of many styles so I can run dragon style and pummeling style at once and administer serious beatdown like a good glass cannon. After all the ultimate defbuff to the enemy is death.


Female Elf Investigator 8 | 62/62 | AC 21/16/15 | CMD 22 | F 3/R 12/W 7 | Init +6 | Perc +17/+19 traps

Are hybrid classes allowed to multi-class into a parent class?


Yes, they removed that restriction.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5
Bug Eater wrote:
The problem with the idea of a dex built brawler is that AC is IMO an all or nothing business. You either get it really high so that getting hit is a remote chance, or it is fairly pointless. If I had the build you talk about, I would have 3 more AC. Woo hoo.

HEY! I have 22 AC. 23 if I use my quickdraw shield.

And 3 AC difference is 15% less chance.


Male Stats: Init +5, AC 31,FF 27, T 16 fort +11, Ref +10, Will +12, 84/84 HP, perception +16, CMD 30, 40 grapple, 40 trip
Xavier Longsaddle wrote:


HEY! I have 22 AC. 23 if I use my quickdraw shield.

Yes, but you have spells and heals with which to supplement that. I cannot.

Quote:


And 3 AC difference is 15% less chance.

No, actually it depends on enemy to hit and your present AC as to how much it changes the chance of getting hit.

For example if we have AC 20 vs. 23 and the enemy has a to hit greater than 23, it makes no difference at all. Also, if the enemy has a +0, same thing. In between the number can vary quite a bit.

With a +3 to hit on the opposition, you go from hitting on a 17+ to hitting on a 20. That's actually cutting the odds of you being hit in that circumstance by 75%.

If the enemy has a +10, then it goes from 10+ to hit, vs. 13+ which is close to a 30% reduction in your odds of getting hit.

But again, Bug is built on he rocket tag ideal where if I put them down fast enough, they don't kill me. It can work if you can tag hard enough.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5

A quick discussion in game will be rp'd, but as I see it the water level will rise again soon.

We need to get out, I don't have another water breathing and our boat is gone.

Let's kill as many as we can and take the boat, leaving the remaining stranded and we can call the general.
We would have weakened and isolated the bad guys in an underground complex with no getaway craft.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5
Bug Eater wrote:
Xavier Longsaddle wrote:


HEY! I have 22 AC. 23 if I use my quickdraw shield.

Yes, but you have spells and heals with which to supplement that. I cannot.

Quote:


And 3 AC difference is 15% less chance.

No, actually it depends on enemy to hit and your present AC as to how much it changes the chance of getting hit.

For example if we have AC 20 vs. 23 and the enemy has a to hit greater than 23, it makes no difference at all. Also, if the enemy has a +0, same thing. In between the number can vary quite a bit.

With a +3 to hit on the opposition, you go from hitting on a 17+ to hitting on a 20. That's actually cutting the odds of you being hit in that circumstance by 75%.

If the enemy has a +10, then it goes from 10+ to hit, vs. 13+ which is close to a 30% reduction in your odds of getting hit.

But again, Bug is built on he rocket tag ideal where if I put them down fast enough, they don't kill me. It can work if you can tag hard enough.

Absolutely.

I have played a few invulnerable ragers like that.

If I had thought of that at the start I would have played a shaman with better access to more spells for healing.

Inquisitors, Paladins and I am discovering Warpriests are Secondary Healers.

As it stands I am the ONLY one with divine magic and the selfish nature of the class to burn spells doesn't lend well to healing others.
We'll see.


Male Gnome Arcanist (occultist) 8 | HP 44/44 | AC 15 (19 w/Mage Armor) | +5 fort +6 ref +8 will | +9 init +8 perc | Resource Tracker

Paladins can be pretty good at healing HP damage with either Hospitaler (the channel is mostly for out of combat, arguably a wand can replace that but after a while you'll go through 50 charges of CLW like candy).

Off healing can be quite useful since I tend to find a lot of people don't like playing clerics. I assume this in part is due to the MMO 'heal bot' stigma (personally I quite like reach clerics).


Female Elf Investigator 8 | 62/62 | AC 21/16/15 | CMD 22 | F 3/R 12/W 7 | Init +6 | Perc +17/+19 traps

So instead of ferreting them out and taking them in multiple small numbers... We're gonna help them marshal their forces to attack us with overwhelming numbers?

I think we'll die.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5

That's cool.

Talk us out of it in game.
The whole ferret out and kill slowly bit works, only if you A. Bypass foes and remain undetected.
Or
B. Kill everyone and leave no one at your back.

We SHOULD have killed those first guards outside the door.

We might still be able to do that, but if we chase them outside it only gives those inside longer to realize something is wrong.

I say we go room to room and try to fight on a narrow front, just so long as everyone is cool with the possibility of getting attacked from behind.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5

Online. Let's Kill stuff.


Evil GM

i'll try to get an update up later this morning.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5

Baldwin,

Do you mind if I tweak Xaviers feats a bit?

The Cornugon Smash Bit I know synergises well with this build.

I would like to see how it plays as a full turtle.

So I want to exchange

Dazzling Display, Cornugon Smash, Shatter Defences and Intimidating Prowess

for

Tower Shield Proficiency,Weapon Spec: Bastard Sword, Barroom Brawler and Battlecry.

The effect will be no more free action intimidate, flat footed debuffs.
in exchange for
+4 AC (Tower Shield), +2 Damage (Bastard Sword), Baroom Brawler let me pick any combat feat I qualify for 1/day and Battle cry lets me shout a buff as a swift action to grant everybody +1 to attack and they can ditch the bonus to reroll a failed save.

Only if that is cool with you. I was thinking it might be ok, since this is a trial game AND you would not have to constantly be applying status effects to whatever I hit.


Evil GM

It's fine with me...its a trial to test out the classes.


Male Human Warpriest 8, AC21/T10/FF21+2 if using Shield, HP74/74, F10/R4/W12, CMB+10/CMD+20, Perception +5

Sweet. I'll make the changes.


Male Gnome Arcanist (occultist) 8 | HP 44/44 | AC 15 (19 w/Mage Armor) | +5 fort +6 ref +8 will | +9 init +8 perc | Resource Tracker

It might be interesting to try the occultist archetype out. What I'd expect is it would have roughly the same crowd control abilities as this build but with a rather potent summons ability (granted one summon spell active at a time only).

On the other hand I think it would be quite a strong build, and I don't want to trivialise everything.


Evil GM
Quiznab wrote:

It might be interesting to try the occultist archetype out. What I'd expect is it would have roughly the same crowd control abilities as this build but with a rather potent summons ability (granted one summon spell active at a time only).

On the other hand I think it would be quite a strong build, and I don't want to trivialise everything.

Switch it up if you want.


Evil GM

I'm going to amp up the creatures in the book to try to challenge you all a bit more.


Male Stats: Init +5, AC 31,FF 27, T 16 fort +11, Ref +10, Will +12, 84/84 HP, perception +16, CMD 30, 40 grapple, 40 trip

Personally the only change I would consider on my character is adding monk levels so I can using multiple styles at once. Other than that, I can't do much more with a brawler (though I suppose the shield archetype might enable him to be defensive enough to be a solid front line tank).


Evil GM

If you guys want to add one more level that fine with me at this point. I'm interested in seeing how these characters play out at these mid-levels where most gaming tends occurs. I'd like to see you guys get to a sweet spot before i hit you with a lich. :-) Bug and Quiz think I jest. Haha


Male Stats: Init +5, AC 31,FF 27, T 16 fort +11, Ref +10, Will +12, 84/84 HP, perception +16, CMD 30, 40 grapple, 40 trip

You're OK if I add a monk level right?


Evil GM

I'm fine with everyone adding another level (or multi-class for your Bug)

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