Hmm, fairly dumb bit of wording - might have been nice if they had put some thought into making that a bit clearer without a DM's ruling. Even better, the system works using a square grid but these are spherical. Man, this makes 4e look like a great system at times.
I would suggest that you need to have a sphere equal in size to the creature's facing, so a Large creature will require a 10' sphere. I think it's fair and transparent and saves having to think too hard. After all, plently of Large creatures are also more than 10' tall even if they don't occupy a 10X10 square on the ground.
Hmm, fairly dumb bit of wording - might have been nice if they had put some thought into making that a bit clearer without a DM's ruling. Even better, the system works using a square grid but these are spherical. Man, this makes 4e look like a great system at times.
I would suggest that you need to have a sphere equal in size to the creature's facing, so a Large creature will require a 10' sphere. I think it's fair and transparent and saves having to think too hard. After all, plently of Large creatures are also more than 10' tall even if they don't occupy a 10X10 square on the ground.
Not whinging, or maybe I am;...I just had a "secure shelter" diffed on me....
What kinda bugs me is the basicness of the description i.e. "it looks like a standard dwelling of the area....yadda yadda...." and this makes me have to draw assumptions as dungeon master i.e. "the walls are "x" thick. the walls are "x" tall. the roof is flat/trangular/a dodecahedron. the chimbly is 2 feet in diameter; the iron grill is made of inch thick bands of iron; with 1 inch holes in it....this grill is how many feet down the 10 foot tall chimbly....etc etc..." which, in turn, potentially opens me up to charges (and I'm not talking about the people I'm gaming with here, just in general) of being a big meany and ruining the spell's efficacy for my own jollies or whatever.It makes me wonder just how much of the "wizard's awesomeness" is due to a simple case of generic, piss poor description of spell effects which I've started to notice more and more frequently, and I wonder if, frinstance, the true power of the "secure shelter" is just how vaguely it's written and the dungeonmaster just is supposed to say, "f@*% it. You blew a 4th level spell; you get a good night's sleep."
At least a description of the walls' hardness and thickness is called for beside "it looks like any damn building in the area."
I don't want to sound like I'm whining because my plans were jacked or whatever, just I wish the spell was a lot less vague.
I don’t know ... spell effects seem to be one of those things that keep causing debates at the game table (or flame wars on the internet) and there is definitely some vagueness, or perhaps over conciseness in some of the descriptions. But then you don’t want your rule books to blow out to double the thickness by trying to cover every contingency in the spell descriptions.
I think a lot of the descriptions are really based on the first or second edition descriptions, where things could be a bit vague as it was generally accepted by most players that the GM could and would adjudicate any grey areas. Now it seems that there are a large number of gamers who think that EVERYTHING needs to be covered by the RAW, and the GM shouldn’t have to make those calls (and definitely shouldn’t ‘screw the players’). I don’t know, I think we’re, for the most part, from that old school of gaming (in philosophy if not age) and are pretty chill about these things.
As for Secure Shelter, I actually think the description is pretty good, without getting into excessive word count. You know the size, the material composition, number of doors and windows, that they are arcane locked or shut off by grilles and alarmed, that the place is furnished etc. I guess the main thing that could be better defined is the wall thickness, since hit points of stone is per inch, but I reckon you could say 5 inch thick walls, or 4 or 6 or whatever and no one would really blink an eye.
The cottage is made of materials common to the area it is conjured – I’d say you could expand on that to say the style is in keeping with the local culture, so a cottage in an Asgardian setting would have a high peaked roof etc. The chimney has a grate at the top and a ‘narrow’ flue.
As for Resilient Sphere, I think Aubrey’s call is a good one, although if a specific height or length of a creature is given you could maybe use that instead on a case by case basis (otherwise what is the real use of the size jumping up by 1 ft increments, it would just be 5 ft at 5th level, 10 ft at 10th level etc ... but maybe I am assuming too much logic and common sense on the part of the designers?)
I don't want to sound like I'm whining because my plans were jacked or whatever...
Whiner. ;P
Actually, I think the spell was a lot more specific about door thickness, iron grilles in the chimney etc. back in the AD&D days. However, it is pretty obvious that the 3.x/PF guys didn't want to 'waste' wordcount on a boring utility spell. And, hey, I'm using a 4th and a 1st level slot to keep animals from attacking us at night - the shelter won't do much more than slow down giants or a hungry remorhaz. It seems like a pretty fair bargain to me.
Anyway, we're stacked like sardines inside it, listening to Gjetost's snoring and smelling Stig's old socks. That's probably as bad as facing a pack of megawolves.
It makes me wonder just how much of the "wizard's awesomeness" is due to a simple case of generic, piss poor description of spell effects which I've started to notice more and more frequently...
I am sympathetic to this, though. Spellcasters become infinitely more awesome if the effects of their spells are vague or confusingly defined.
Oh, and in 25 years of gaming, this is the first time I've ever used Leomund's secure shelter. A day trip to Asgard seemed like a good time to field-test it.
Fatespinner>>
I thought you might like to see this. The Adventurer's Armory introduced the idea of using alchemical items as additional material components or a focus. (M) = Consumed
(F) = Focus item
Alchemist’s Fire
This dwarven favorite can make fire spells last longer.
* Burning Hands (M): One target that fails its Reflex saving throw (your choice) catches on fire as if it has been struck by alchemist’s fire.
* Fireball (M): One target per caster level that fails its Reflex saving throw (your choice) catches on fire as if it has been struck by alchemist’s fire.
* Flaming Sphere (M): Any creature damaged by a flaming sphere catches on fire as if it has been struck by alchemist’s fire.
* Protection from Energy (M): If cast to ward against cold, increase the amount of fire damage absorbed by 5.
* Resist Energy (M): If cast to ward against cold, increase the fire resistance to 12. At caster level 7th, you may use two flasks of alchemist’s fire as a power component to increase the fire resistance to 24. At caster level 11th, you may use three flasks as a power component to increase the fire resistance to 36.
* Scorching Ray (F): Add a +1 circumstance bonus on your attack roll with all rays from the spell.
* Scorching Ray (M): Any target damaged by a scorching ray catches on fire as if it has been struck by alchemist’s fire.
Fake Healer
(Male Dworc (half-dwarf/half-orc) Monk5/Barbarian1/Rogue2/Jack-of-all-Trades4/Master of None4/Quasi-diety4)
Sorry guys. I thought I could handle picking up the game again but I seem to have been lulled into a false sense of complacency. Life has shifted(again) and I am barely even able to get on the PC right now. I am extremely sorry to do this again but I have to drop out.
Probably won't be around much to see responses but I wanted to pop in and let you guys know to soldier on without me.
I feel like such a heel. Sorry Aub.
FH
How should we deal with Dravite in Fakey’s absence. We’re probably at a point where it doesn’t make much sense for him to say ‘alright guys, I’m off, good luck with this troll problem.’
Should we continue running him as an NPC at this stage, or Aubrey did you want to retcon things so that he didn’t come with us – maybe he took some of the Black Arrows to hold the fort against further ogre attacks until reinforcements arrive from Magnimar?
Nevvynxxx-
You shouldn't have too much problem getting into flanking positions with an acrobatics of +19. That's pretty much a free pass on AoO for anything up to CMD 24. After that they have 5% chance to hit get you to provoke for every point higher their CMD is. That is a very wide margin of foes who you can just waltz right around to take a flank.
If you are having trouble getting one at any point, call it out IC. Illes is often doing nothing directly offensive. He can easily stand across from you while holding a weapon to enable sneak attacks. It might hinder his casting, but if I have inspire courage he has a fair chance of landing hits vs mid range opponents himself. Alternatively- I can trade out a spell slot for a summons at some point. Low level summons can't compete in a fight at all, but they are cardboard cut-out flank machines. The monster has to waste attacks to get rid of them or stay flanked. Meanwhile the rogue has 1-3 rounds to dish it out. Well- cleave or greater cleave excepting ;)
Anyway- it shouldn't take too much to make sure you are able to deal sneak attack nearly every round with a group this big. Just don't bother getting into position with Hudak unless it is a serious fight. Nothing is going to stand up to him long enough to make it worth your while.
Thanks Ith.
It's more the act of getting behind though. My problem seems to be that by the time I'm around the back of something, someone else has already killed it ;)
It could just be that I've not been in that many combats up to now, and most of them have been in big open terrain, so the movement aspect has been harder than it should be.
As it is, this turn I'll get a single attack, next turn I should get a single attack (with a tumble behind it), next turn, if the troll is still there, I should get a full attack, all sneaky....So it's not quite as bad as I made out....
:)
You have a slight habit of not thinking out how to use your individual actions (move / standard) fully effectively. A couple of times you have moved and not had a standard action, for example - a bit like yesterday (although to be fair you were unclear if they were flatfooted or not). But what Ith says is good stuff - hanging round with maybe Alwyn would be good, since he is tough and scary but lacks the sheer brutality of Hudak (especially Big Hudak) and as he is also the party healer, helping him down his foes is quickly and with limited damage inflicted on him is good for everybody. Oh, a Haste (or Fly) is your friend, since your movement rate of 20' is a bit low to take full advantage of movement to position yourself most effectively.
The things getting killed before you get there was also a factor of the specific ogre fight. The ogres were CR 3 against a party (and a large party) of level 6 or so - that's a recipe for slaughter (their's). It was also the first fight (I think) where we had gone fully PF (and all the extra toughness that entails) and also where Hudak had his iterative attack for the first time, I think. So by facing lots of weak (though maybe they didn't look it) opponents, it made the PCs look tougher than maybe they really are, especially as I didn't beef up the encounter either for the size of the party or the change in system (though the scenario doesn't really envisage such a full-on fight either, to be fair, more discreet assassination and dirty tricks). I did beef up the ettin encounter (adding the bear) but since he had several rounds just getting to the fight, and the PCs were fresh and fully buffed, it went rather badly for them. You'll get plenty of chance to flank in future, I'm sure.
Glad to hear it! Nothing wrong with Drs orders to stay in bed!
In other news, my post on the main thread only took half an hour of consulting with d20pfsrd.com to work out.... :D
Don't sweat it man; no biggie one way or the other.
None of this costs me money, so f$@% it.In other news.....
My router cacked; feel free to npc Rod/Hudak/Aleph; should be back Wed or Thurs I guess.
Apologies for my unannounced absence over the past week or so; turns out that looking after a new baby (who’s been sick as well) combined with the general busyness that accompanies the lead up to Christmas doesn’t leave much time for recreational computer use. Who knew?
I’ll try to catch up on things tonight and tomorrow, although I’ll probably not be around much again on the 25th and 26th. Oh, and happy Christmas etc to everyone.
Hope everyone had a good Christmas? I understand it's been extra cold in the UK and parts of the US, hope everyone has stayed safe.
All is well in the Northeastern U.S. We got hammered with a ton of snow over the weekend, but the road crews have gotten everything cleared away in time for the work week. :)
It's thawed now, so it's not too bad. The snow was pretty but the temperatures weren't, and they did me and my man-flu no good at all. Sorry for not being around but I really didn't have the energy until recently. I'm off to see the in-laws tomorrow so I might have time to update - or I might not. I will be back by the New Year in either case, but I won't be able to update while I am there.
Yes. I fumbled it slightly by having him a bit close to use his reach weapon, plus he had (as a troll) invested in Intimidate so I thought it would be a shame if he didn't use it. But actually with a party of seven it is difficuly for a single monster with anything but crazy defences to have much chance, especially in PF where the power curve is steeper. He simply didn't have enough actions before he got wasted. I shall learn...
Yes. I fumbled it slightly by having him a bit close to use his reach weapon, plus he had (as a troll) invested in Intimidate so I thought it would be a shame if he didn't use it. But actually with a party of seven it is difficuly for a single monster with anything but crazy defences to have much chance, especially in PF where the power curve is steeper. He simply didn't have enough actions before he got wasted. I shall learn...
Having Illes drop a charm person on him would've been hilarious too, since trolls are "humanoids" now.
"Oh, hey Grazuul. What's shakin'?"
"Not much, my man. What brings you to the dam, homey?"
"Oh, just chillin'. You mind if we roll through and check out that hallway? We're looking for some bad dudes."
"No problem, man! Here, let me move those skulls for you."
"Thanks dude."
"Be cool."
Yes. I fumbled it slightly by having him a bit close to use his reach weapon, plus he had (as a troll) invested in Intimidate so I thought it would be a shame if he didn't use it. But actually with a party of seven it is difficuly for a single monster with anything but crazy defences to have much chance, especially in PF where the power curve is steeper. He simply didn't have enough actions before he got wasted. I shall learn...
Yeah; it's a biznich to run a solo creep against a mob o' players.
Yes. I fumbled it slightly by having him a bit close to use his reach weapon, plus he had (as a troll) invested in Intimidate so I thought it would be a shame if he didn't use it. But actually with a party of seven it is difficuly for a single monster with anything but crazy defences to have much chance, especially in PF where the power curve is steeper. He simply didn't have enough actions before he got wasted. I shall learn...
There's always the 4E approach where you just multiply the hit points by 5, give the critter 2 standard actions in a round, and otherwise just completely throw convention out the window for the sake of encounter complexity....
Dear friends,
I am experiencing a minor life crisis at the moment. One which will require all of my psychic energy to overcome.
I'm not sure if I really have the wherewithal or the motivation to run or participate in pbp for the forseeable few weeks at least. I'm not in a "happy funtime Heathy" mood at the moment.
It's nothing life threatening; it's work stuff.
As such, please let Hudak sneak off with Dravite, let Aleph get a little bit lost in the woods, let Rodergo go in the wilderness to meditate a bit....or npc them; I'm not sure what I'm going to do right now, but I think you guys need to know I'll be taking off for a bit.
I also need to put my pbp on indefinite hiatus.
In a few weeks/month(s) possibly I'll test the waters again and see if it's okay to join back in the revelry, as well as see if we want to continue with the inevitable questing in Asgard......Sigil.....Isle of Dread whathaveyou.
Your friend,
Heath