2. Wild talent is inevitable strike
3. The balance as compared to step up (feat +1 BAB reqd) or combat slide (1st level blade skill) is the use of psionic focus making it available only for psionic characters and requiring a full round action and the loss of other associated focus abilities to gain the movement benefit
4. Absolutely, since you're happy with the conceptual idea, I'll flesh out the story
-Posted with Wayfinder
|
Cristaph:
I'm afraid I'm not really convinced. I'm always a bit wary of 3rd party stuff and while I'm basically OK with Psionics Unleashed I'm less so with some of the later stuff, mainly because it probably isn't fully playtested. I'm not really crippling your character to ask you to choose something else since you have also taken the equivalent soulknife ability. So I would prefer it if you chose something else.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Aubrey, just read your updated campaign info tab wrt Wild Talent for all PCs and then you reference the Dark Sun Conversion Guide. Not sure I completely understand.
Are you saying that as a human: One would get Wild Talent Feat and a 0-level psionic talent (your house rule) in addition to the Wild Talent feat and 1st-level psionic talent in the conversion guide?
And then with a level of a psionic class, a human would gain the Psionic Talent feat for a total of 3 bonus psionic feats (for the purposes of power points) and 2 extra talents (1 0-lvel and 1 1st-level)?
|
|
I misread the description in the human race description in the conversion guide. Perhaps it is easier to describe it like this - since a human gets Wild Talent anyway, he simply takes Psionic Talent at 1st level instead of the racial Wild Talent (since Wild Talent gives you a power point reserve anyway) giving him 4 power points in total (over and above what he gets potentially as a psionic character). At 5th level, you just gain another 2 power points.
I was also unclear on the whole Implementing Talents thing (the bottom half of the talents page I linked), so let me clarify. Psionic classes do not get additional talents - there is no need as most of them have powers which are not dissimilar (especially psions). The only way to get a talent is through Wild Talent, and you get just one. (The point of this is to make it vaguely similar to the talents that characters accrue in the 4e version.) I suppose I could invent a feat which might give you more talents if people are desperate, but I'll cross that bridge if and when I come to it. I will clarify in the Campaign Info.
I think there is a psionic feat already for that. Called Access Psionic Talent
Thom:
** spoiler omitted **
I will gladly avail myself of your erudition. I'm pretty much a Core Rulebook guy. So I am unfamiliar with Ultimate Combat. A month ago, I bought Dreamscarred Press' Psionics Unleashed, but haven't really dug into it yet.
When you suggested 'kreen, I instantly considered a psionic multi-class, but only looked at the combat oriented ones and nothing seemed to suit the proposed background. I'll check egoist out. It might get me close to a longtime goal of a monk/wizard multiclass PC.
I'm off to examine possibilities. And I still owe you an answer to "how did being raised by sentient crickets affect you? "
Thom:
As for how did it affect your PC, that can be brought out in play - you don't need a detailed write-up.
Alright, I am also slightly confused, since my situation isn't exactly covered by the situation above.
I get Wild Talent as a campaign bonus, as above.
I get Wild Talent as a racial bonus feat.
The racial bonus feat entry states that if I take levels in a Psionic Class, it gets upgraded to Psionic Talent. But I am not taking a psionic class, so that is moot.
So my question is, do my two Wild Talents become one Psionic Talent, or do I keep them both?
And if I keep them both, do I select two Talents? Or just one Talent and have 2x the Power Points to use it?
Also, on the weapons document, which ones are druids proficient with? or should I go with the normal proficiency?
(club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, scythe, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear)
And would i be proficient with half-giant weapons? Though they don't have the race in the name, many of the weapons say they are half-giant or thri-kreen weapons
Obviously, my choice of weapon isn't all that important, but some kind of thrown weapon (especially if it uses ammo) and some kind of melee weapon is what I am going for. I want to utilize my strength when I have to actually attack with a weapon, which may be much of the time at low levels.
|
|
Alright, I am also slightly confused, since my situation isn't exactly covered by the situation above.
I get Wild Talent as a campaign bonus, as above.
I get Wild Talent as a racial bonus feat.
The racial bonus feat entry states that if I take levels in a Psionic Class, it gets upgraded to Psionic Talent. But I am not taking a psionic class, so that is moot.
So my question is, do my two Wild Talents become one Psionic Talent, or do I keep them both?
And if I keep them both, do I select two Talents? Or just one Talent and have 2x the Power Points to use it?
You know what, I should really read these things more carefully. Turns out every race gets Wild Talent anyway. OK, screech of changing gears - scrap it as an extra bonus feat, since it is a bonus feat for everyone already. No one gets it twice, or converts the extra one to Psionic Talent. You just get a talent. See - much easier.
EDIT: Now updated in the Campaign Info.
|
|
Also, on the weapons document, which ones are druids proficient with? or should I go with the normal proficiency?
(club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, scythe, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear)
And would i be proficient with half-giant weapons? Though they don't have the race in the name, many of the weapons say they are half-giant or thri-kreen weapons
Obviously, my choice of weapon isn't all that important, but some kind of thrown weapon (especially if it uses ammo) and some kind of melee weapon is what I am going for. I want to utilize my strength when I have to actually attack with a weapon, which may be much of the time at low levels.
I would assume that you are proficient with only the weapons stated under the druid weapon proficiency list. You'd only be proficient with a half-giant weapon (i.e. have Weapon Familiarity, like a dwarf or a half-orc) if (1) it says so in the half-giant race description, which I don't think it does, and (2) it has the term "half-giant" in the weapon title. However, you can check to see if any of the Athasian weapons mention that they can be used by a druid.
On the other hand, though, you can wield outsize weapons - a Large spear does 2d6 damage with a x3 crit modifier. Alternatively, you could take a feat like Martial Weapon Proficiency - you only run into trouble with your oath if you wear or use a forbidden shield or armour (not that you'll find much metal around here anyway).
I see. I was only asking as none of the items on the DS weapon list were on the Druid entry (as the druid entry was not made with DS in mind). But I will stick with the vanilla stuff)
Morthak's updated stats below.
Note I spent my cash on a flaming warhammer to sorta approximate what he already had. I also purchased mwk banded mail to approximate the scorpion carapace armor. I also had a magic shield, but don't have enough cash to make an equivalent.
Feels like we're taking a big step back here. Not just the docked level, but even my gear (which I didn't have anything much to begin with) took a hit.
Male dwarf psychic warrior 4 (Ultimate Psionics 53)
CN Medium humanoid (dwarf)
Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 11, flat-footed 20 (+8 armor, +1 Dex, +2 shield)
hp 40 (4d8+16)
Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +5; +2 vs. poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities defensive training
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee exsiccating warhammer +7 (1d8+4/×3 plus 1d6 fire)
Special Attacks hatred
Psychic Warrior Powers Known (power points 14, ML 4th; concentration +6)
. . 2nd—repositioning strike
. . 1st—catfall (path), inevitable strike, stomp (DC 14), thicken skin, vigor (path)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 8
Base Atk +3; CMB +6 (+8 bull rush); CMD 17 (23 vs. bull rush, 21 vs. trip)
Feats Body Fuel, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Psionic Talent, Psionic Weapon
Traits dirty fighter, mental discipline
Skills Acrobatics -1 (-5 to jump), Appraise +1 (+3 to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones), Autohypnosis +11, Climb +1, Heal +5, Perception +8 (+10 to notice unusual stonework), Ride -1, Spellcraft +6, Survival +12; Racial Modifiers +2 Appraise to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones, +2 Perception to notice unusual stonework
Languages Common, Dwarven, Terran
SQ maneuver (survivor path), path power, path skill, trance (survivor path), warrior's path, warrior's path (survivor's path)
Other Gear scorpion carapace armor, heavy wooden shield, exsiccating warhammer, goggles (worth 1 gp), sack, trail rations (5), waterskin (2), 38 gp, 5 sp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Body Fuel You can expand your power point total at the expense of your health.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs. monsters of the Giant subtype.
Dirty Fighter +1 damage when flanking.
Greed +2 to Appraise to determine price of nonmagic goods with precious metals or gemstones.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs. Goblinoids/Orcs.
Improved Bull Rush You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when bull rushing.
Maneuver (Survivor Path) Beginning at 3rd level, you can expend your psionic focus as an immediate action to be treated as having the Stalwart ability until the beginning of your next turn. At 7th level and every four psychic warrior levels beyond, you gain a +1 competence b
Mental Discipline +1 to Autohypnosis checks, Autohypnosis as class skill
Path Power (Catfall [Path]) (Ex) Gain a bonus power related to your path.
Path Skill (Survival) +2 bonus to one skill associated with the path you are on.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Psionic Talent Gain 2 or 1 extra power points.
Psionic Weapon +1/+2d6 While focused melee attacks do +1 dmg adn expend focus to deal +2d6 dmg.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs. unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Trance (Survivor Path) +2 When psi-focused you gain DR and hot or cold environment endurance.
Warrior's Path (Ex) Gain benefits based on a specific warrior path.
Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.
dang, druid's vestment is barely out of price range.
if only Rich Parents made sense for Cahel as a trait! curses!
Not a whole lot i want off the gear list. A sling, a spear, and some hide armor.
Is it possible to save the rest of the ceramic coin and maybe bank it towards a Druid's Vestment drop later?
|
|
@ Morthak
Well, in terms of the docked level, remember that a 4th level PF character is 20% of the way to maximum, whereas a 5th level PF character is 17% of the way to maximum. So it's not that bad. In terms of the gear... Well, this is probably somewhat truer to the whole sword-and-sorcery, poverty-stricken ideal of DS. And have you added in your inherent bonuses?
And your equipment is positively royal compared to my second Eberron campaign.
Cahel can have a druid's vestment if he's happy to take a negative balance on forthcoming treasure until that balance is paid off.
Excellent! Will do. It is surprising how many of the cheap items go out the window with DS plus Inherent Bonuses.
+1 armor? Technically already bought that. Same with cloak of resistance. Several others are things to make life easier, take care of daily food and water, etc.
@ Morthak
Well, in terms of the docked level, remember that a 4th level PF character is 20% of the way to maximum, whereas a 5th level PF character is 17% of the way to maximum. So it's not that bad. In terms of the gear... Well, this is probably somewhat truer to the whole sword-and-sorcery, poverty-stricken ideal of DS. And have you added in your inherent bonuses?
And your equipment is positively royal compared to my second Eberron campaign.
Yeah, I added them in. Hero Lab is a little wonky in that regard, so I've added the bonuses onto the items, and the resistance bonus as a standing modifier. If you're happy with my gear, I'll post the stat block to my profile and paste in the DS dwarf stuff. I'll also put links for the psionic powers for easy reference.
...
And your equipment is positively royal compared to my second Eberron campaign.
I can testify to that!
Still having fun. Although I could have used a +12 cloak of resistance recently. It would have saved a lot of running.
Egoist2/Monk2. Feats in particular are a mess. DW and I are still working things out and Grea could be a grappler or tripper.
sorry, almost done with Cahel. I had planned to get more done today but it wasn't in the cards. Later tonight i will update what i have, should be enough to begin play, since i likely will be on mobile internet only tomorrow.
put in my updates. should be good now unless I missed something.
rolls minimum 5
Level 1 HP: 8
+1 CON at each level means final HP is 29
|
|
Thom:
|
|
Jareen, I was thinking about your orb (ooer, Mrs!). In DS, a wizard's spellbook is usually disguised as something else, since taking out a big spellbook and perusing it is a good way to get people yelling "Defiler!" and pointing at you (you may be familiar with the feeling). I was wondering if you want to convert your spellbook into some sort of orb, maybe with cryptic carvings on it, which can act as your spellbook. Not quite as cool as something to blast people with, but keeps the thing with you.
Cahel, the domain you choose as a druid isn't any cleric domain, it's only specific ones listed in the druid class description which are linked to nature. You've chosen War domain, which isn't one of those.
War is allowed per the modifications the Saurian Shaman makes to the Druid feature.
Nature Bond
A saurian shaman who chooses an animal companion must select a dinosaur. If choosing a domain, a saurian shaman must choose from the Animal, Destruction, Strength, and War domains.
|
Jareen, I was thinking about your orb (ooer, Mrs!). In DS, a wizard's spellbook is usually disguised as something else, since taking out a big spellbook and perusing it is a good way to get people yelling "Defiler!" and pointing at you (you may be familiar with the feeling). I was wondering if you want to convert your spellbook into some sort of orb, maybe with cryptic carvings on it, which can act as your spellbook. Not quite as cool as something to blast people with, but keeps the thing with you.
That could be an option.
My other line of thinking (which could work with it) is that I have three options 1) familiar, 2) bonded item, 3) bonded weapon.
Jareen is supposed to be about controlling the battlefield, and not up close melee, and we have enough of that, so a bonded weapon doesn't seem right. A familiar on Athas also seems a little odd... Animals are food or danger.... So having the orb as a bonded object (which gets me another spell to cast too) seems reasonable. Crunch wise it's not the optimal combination, but fluff wise, it works best.
|
|
Yes, that could work. There aren't too many "orb-type" magic items and the description in the wizard class says it has to be an amulet, wand, ring, staff or weapon. An orb feels to me most equivalent to either a wand or staff since you would need to hold it to use ("Grab hold of your orb - this could get rough!"). In aesthetic terms an orb to me leans more towards a staff than a wand, but the problem with a staff is that you can't enchant your item with extra powers until you get to 11th level, which will be ages. A wand can be enchanted from level 5. So if you prefer a "wand-equivalent" orb instead of a "staff-equivalent" one, that's fine.
On Jareen more generally, he was a specialised illusionist wizard under 4e - is he going that way again or something else. Illusions are less flashy and therefore less likely to cause the "Defiler!" issue, but it's obviously your choice.
EDIT: Mage of the Veil might be an interesting choice if you "go illusionist". Not very Wham-Bam and you would lose blinding ray, which is quite cool, but interesting from being member of the Veiled Alliance (although the similarity in the names is coincidental).
|
|
Yeah, I've roughed him out as an illusionist, I now need to figure what he'll lose/gain from that. I plan on looking at the mage of the veil.
I'm tempted to build him as an illusionist up to the point he got the boon, then focus on the cold aspect from there, but again, not sure how well that will work mechanically.
|
|
Probably depends on how you choose your arcane schools. To be honest, from a mechanical perspective I'm not convinced by the boon (despite the fact I designed it) - for the money there might be better things, and to be honest the effect isn't all that amazing (the 4e one was better, but didn't translate well into PF/3e). Up to you - boons aren't really intended to last for ever necessarily, and designing your PC round a fairly average ability might not be the best move.
Anyone, how does the metal shortage affect weapon availability?
And, what is the game canon on Thri'kreen? Has anything more than aggressive nomadic sentient crickets been established?
Aubrey, Nevynxxx, for your consideration, the orb could translate as a crystal-headed rod. It's like a short staff.
Looks good as a rough draft. As I said above, you might want to consider these Style Feats, especially the Mantis Style as I mentioned before if you want to enhance your Stunning Fist. Also don't forget your bonus Wild Talent feat and your bonus psionic talent.
Are the Wild Talent and bonus psionic talent special campaign features? I didn't see them in Psionics Unleashed.
*****
DW and I have been messaging to sort out our Monk v Brawler overlap. At last communication he was going with a 'dirty tricks' kind of fighter.
And our discussions have had me re-thinking Grea, somewhat. She started out kind of like a glorified pet dog, especially with her low intelligence. ( I like to make low intelligence PCs the first time I play a setting.) She wasn't much of a tool user. When I started one possible idea was that she could be a thrower, probably of rocks.
She had to get smarter to make psion work. And that means she's more of a tool user.
And I've been thinking about your ranged weapon comment. I could try to slot her more into that gap, although I'd like to keep flurry with Mantis style for melee.
Possible routes.
1. Stay basic monk but augment or replace the usual monk bonus feat list with the Zen Archer list. Get a bow and load up on archery feats. Bow prof, point blank, precise, rapid....
2. Basic monk with throw anything and maybe quickdraw. Rock hurler. Unfortunately range is short. It would be cool if she could flurry with the rocks and maybe use flurry damage?
3. Basic monk, but with custom feats to boost sling use similarly to the Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Crossbow Mastery line of feats.
|
|
Thom:
Game canon on thri'kreen is something I'm not that clued-up on, frankly - so you can feel free to invent. I don't know much more than aggressive nomadic sentient crickets either. However, also remember than a basic social unit is the "clutch", which is at its base the thri'kreen who hatch together and bond, growing up together and learning and hunting together, but also subsequently affects how thri'kreen view personal relationships - for example, fellow party-members may be members of a surrogate clutch. Your motivation could be that one or more of the PCs in the village (like DW's brawler) are seen by Grea as part of her clutch. There is a Wikipedia article here with more detail.
All PCs get Wild Talent (or something like it) - look in the DS PF Conversion Document in the Campaign Info for each race and you will see it under Naturally Psionic. Psionic talents are additional campaign goodies, not in the basic psionic rules.
Thri'kreen use chatcha, crystal throwing disks, as their normal ranged weapon, rather than bows. The ranged thing shouldn't necessarily drive people away from an earlier concept unless that's what you want. Personally I rather like the whole egoist/monk thing. As with DW when he considered giving up his brawler, don't change your concept unless you want to - don't worry about fitting in with roles and stuff. The ranged combat comment was more to note it rather than saying people needed to change their characters.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
crystal-headed rod.Damnit, should *not* have googled that. Google image results just came a popping right up....
Sorry, Nevynxxx. I didn't know there was anything untoward there. It just sounded like it would set Aubrey off again. Grist for his mill as it were.
I'm out of town so just on the phone.
Couple quick things.
Swapped out psychoportive trait for suspicious. Fits with background. As such, I moved some skill points around to put a couple in sense motive.
Cash spent: 170 on a masterwork hide shirt and 2500 on a ring of sustenance. A few other coins on backpack, waterskin and some similar sundry support items.
I'll get a detailed background up soon and will repost stats to my profile once I get back to my computer.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Sorry, got pulled into a class I wasn't expecting this week for work. I have limited time.
Arakan was almost done, then the PF DS rules kicked in, and I haven't been able to get time to really sit down and go through them yet.
I'm still not sure I get the Wild Talent thing. Also, since you want us to use the DS races, it says I get a psionic power (and some other skill bonuses). So, Wild Talent gives me 1 power point, plus a talent? So I get the racial power and the talent, or no talent because I get a racial power?
|
|
I'm out of town so just on the phone.
Couple quick things.
Swapped out psychoportive trait for suspicious. Fits with background. As such, I moved some skill points around to put a couple in sense motive.
Cash spent: 170 on a masterwork hide shirt and 2500 on a ring of sustenance. A few other coins on backpack, waterskin and some similar sundry support items.
I'll get a detailed background up soon and will repost stats to my profile once I get back to my computer.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Sorry, I'm not allowing a Ring of Sustenance - in DS that'd be worth an awful lot more than 2,500gp, and it takes away the fun of potentially dying of starvation and thirst in the desert. Items and spells which effectively negate the desert environment are verboten.
You got a list of these things you don't allow lying around instead of this "bring me a rock" process?
-Posted with Wayfinder
|
|
Well, I know it when I see it. Sorry for springing it on you late in the process. I'm not sure what the approach was in 2e, but in 4e it was that anything which meant the desert didn't really faze you anymore was banned. So stuff to create water, and prevent starvation, are not allowed. Clearly a Ring of Sustenance would fall into that (the spell Create Water is another, as would a Decanter of Endless Water).
But Endure Elements seems to have been OK. Not sure as an item but as a class feature and spell it seems unchanged. Though it only handles the least deadly aspect of the desert.
Grea, more or less ready to go, except shopping.
Cristaph, Djal, do either of you want to establish previous acquaintance?