For what it's worth, I'm pretty nearly a DS virgin. Raddled with 4e experience to compensate.
Anything we need to know about DM preferences Aubrey?
"I will need a new mask. The long rest has rotted this one."
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Well, to the extent that all I've read is the 4e DS book and bestiary, so am I. I'm not sure I've got any particular preferences, apart from the fact that I tend to like plot-driven over sandbox-style. In terms of character creation, character themes and character backgrounds are permitted (encouraged), and random selection of a wild talent. We'll also use inherent bonuses and weapon breakage.
The actual adventures will be mine, so don't worry if you have read any DS adventures. I intend to nick a theme from a Paizo AP, which might become apparent over time, but it will have be very different in style, execution and outcome, so even if you have read or played that it won't matter. However, characters with well-fleshed backgrounds also help me to do stuff which meshes with them, for sub-plots and so on.
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OK. As a player, you need the PHB. This contains the basic rules and character creation. If you aren't really committed or likely to play anything else much in 4e, I'd maybe stop there. The caveat there is, however, that not all of the "core" classes are there: there is also a PHB 2 and a PHB 3. From memory, the classes in the books are:
PHB 1
Cleric
Fighter
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Warlord
Warlock
Wizard
PHB 2
Avenger
Bard
Barbarian
Druid
Shaman
Sorcerer
PHB 3
Ardent
Battlemind
Hybrid (not a class, more a way of doing multiclassing)
Monk
Psion
Runepriest
There is an "alternative" version of 4e, called Essentials. I don't own the books, but I know the classes are designed differently. I'd prefer not to have Essentials classes in this game. The "PHBs" for this version are called "Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms" and "Heroes of" somewhere else I can't remember. These classes are compatible, but offer less choice in build.
Like I say, as a novice to 4e, I'd just get the PHB. However, Dark Sun is an unusual setting in a number of ways:
- gods are dead. There are no divine characters. However, "divine" has a more specific meaning in 4e. Because all classes have a powers (even classes traditionally seen as "non-casters") they all have "power souces" and divine (clerics, paladins, runepriests, avengers) is one of those. The others are "martial" (rogues, fighters, rangers), "primal" (barbarians, shamans, druids), arcane (bards, wizards, warlocks, sorcerers), and psionic (monk, psion, ardent, battlemind). However, that eliminates some options from the PHB.
- DS emphasises psionics, so the psionic power source is widespread. However, psionics only got added to the game in PHB 3
- arcane power in DS is essentially destructive, a process called "defiling". Using an arcane power draws life energy from the environmnent, and large-scale defiling has left the world of Dark Sun the desert-like wreck it is today. Although it is perfectly possible to cast arcane spells without defiling, the average man on the street will try and kill an arcane caster anyway (although some are protected by the rulers in the setting, who are themselves ultra-powerful immortal defilers).
- the basic races are changed in flavour, although not in basic mechanics. So halflings are forest hunters and cannibals, elves are desert nomads, and so on. A lot of races are actually extinct (half-orcs, gnomes) although not any in PHB 1. There are also additional races in DS: mul (human-dwarf hybrid), half-giant (goliath, from the PHB 2), and thri-kreen
So PHB 1 alone effectively gives you the fighter, ranger, rogue, warlord, warlock and wizard (with the latter two dangerous classes to be in from a roleplaying perspective), with the cleric and the paladin unavailable.
4e also has party "roles", where a character class generally tilts towards one of four:
- leader (effectively, healer and buffer)
- defender (tank, pinning down enemies and taking the flack)
- striker (one-on-one high levels of damage, but a bit fragile)
- controller (battlefield control, preventing enemies manoeuvring and attacking)
A typical party needs one each of leader, defender and controller, with the balance made up of strikers (although controllers are maybe less vital overall). And this balance doesn't really matter massively anyway, although a leader is usually a good idea in a party. At the moment we have a leader (bard) and a striker (warlock). Out of the classes available from the PHB, we have:
- warlock (striker)
- wizard (controller - word of warning, the 4e wizard is NOTHING like a 3e wizard)
- warlord (leader)
- rogue (striker)
- ranger (striker)
- fighter (defender)
Aardvark here, I don't think I need to change anything from the other game, but I will go through and make sure everything is up to date.
I have been a DS addict since the box came out in 2E, so if there are any questions I may be able to answer them.
For 4E rules, the easiest thing might be just to get a 1 month of DDI to have all the options in one place (at least for that month). It's cheaper than any PHB, and although it won't have game rules, you have access to compendium as well if you want to look up any keywords/terms.
For DS, other things to keep in mind:
-Metal is RARE, and when found tends to be worth 100 times more than in normal games.
-Psionics are taught in schools in each of the major city-states, and are very common.
-Most arcane power users are killed on sight when discovered and are believed to be the reason the world is in an apocalyptic state (Most nature lovers HATE arcane user)
-There are only 7 major cities, known as the City-states, and each one is ruled by what is known as a Sorcerer-King. The Sorcerer-Kings have absolute control over their own cities, almost at the level that the Ravenloft darklords have over their domains. They are revered as gods by many, and even have their own priests.
-There are no gods (besides what the Sorcerer-Kings call themselves), so most divine follow the forces of nature, primarily the prime 4 elements.
-Slaves are predominant, almost everyone has, sells and trades them, and is a common punishment to be made a slave.
-Gladiator games are the largest form of entertainment, very popular in each City-State.
-There are also very powerful merchant houses that operate out of each of the City-States
-Race changes are significant
Elves: Tall, dune runners, who trust no one, and no one tends to trust them.
Halflings: Cannibalistic savages, very tuned in to nature
Mul: Half-dwarf/Humans, bred into slavery most often, known for workhorse endurances
Half-giants: Big tough and dumb more than anything
Thri-kreen: savage mantis folk, that don't understand most of the ways of the soft skins
Dwarves: completely hairless, usually driven by a single long term goal.
That's much of it off the top of my head. I may come up with more later.
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I'm not sure a 1 month sub to DDI will cut it now - the Character Generator application is now online-only, so once it is cut off, so is your character sheet. Having a PHB with the various rules ordered in some semblence of logic would be helpful, rather than what is basically an online encyclopedia where you need to know what to look for.
In terms of the setting, I'll stick down a primer. There are some things which are not common knowledge, and I'd like to control the flow of information to the players (and not everything you wrote above is strictly accurate for 4e DS). For those players with no prior experience of the setting (i.e. not owning any DS resources in any edition) it may be helpful to be from somewhere out-of-the-way, like a distant village, so questions can be asked in-game. Or maybe just a low INT. This can be addressed in the character generation phase.
Aubrey,
I was reading the old game thread to get back into my character's mindset, and came across a question I asked there that applies here.
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I'm taking this out of the spoiler as it has general applicability.
What rules will you be using for the hiding of Arcane powers? Do users only roll bluffs around users of what they claim their power source to be? Do we roll them all the time? How does someone recognize Arcane if not a user, or a user of the claimed power source, without the arcane user having resorted to defiling to notice?
The mechanic is not described in the book. I guess it could be something like Bluff v Arcana - so if someone knows their way around magic they might recognise arcane magic being cast. However, there would be circumstantial bonues or penalties. A minor cantrip or utility which doesn't seem to have a very powerful effect or obvious casting might provide a bonus, fireballing someone or defiling in the street or something similarly spectacular would have a hefty negative, and anything in between would probably have no bonus or penalty. In general, to save time, we could make it a passive thing - so if you have a decent Bluff skill and aren't doing anything obvious in front of anyone particularly informed, you should generally be OK. I'm assuming that the casting of an arcane power requires some sort of verbal and/or somatic components, whereas psionics is more mental (perhaps a peculiar, vaguely constipated expression being the obvious sign) in nature, which differentiates between the two power sources.
Hi Aubrey, just seen your post on Fabes' thread - had lost the dot... I'd like to sign up as I agree we had a good thing going in that group. I'll have a think about a controller or a defender, and put something together this weekend.
Sweet. That's a good outcome from a random bout of insomnia. It's 4am here and I bet I'd never have seen the post by the morning...
I thought I read that it was assumed that magic was psionic in nature unless you corrupted or whatever it is called in Dark Sun. I have already built a Shaman from a previous Dark Sun. I'd like to use him here if possible? This is him Gorad Bender the former gladiator.
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No - arcane magic is rarely practiced because (1) it damages the environment and (2) people kill you for damaging the environment (Dark Sun being set in a wasteland because the use of powerful arcane magic effectively wrecked the planet). So people don't see it too often, but any suspicion of arcane magic would upset people for that reason. So casually flinging arcane magic about is tricky unless you can convince someone it isn't, which requires Bluff.
A shaman who's a gladiator - no problem with that as such. The thing about the cities is that the spirits are not strong there (as the rulers are defilers, for one thing) so randomly becoming a shaman doesn't feel quite right with the setting (or, indeed, your high Nature skill). And a healer becoming a gladiator doesn't really feel right unless it was a punishment (especially as a shaman isn't really terribly effective in combat by himself) - I can't really see a nature-worshipper becoming a gladiator in a city for a laugh. You might wish to adjust the background a bit - maybe more of a rural background initially but maybe taken in a slave-taking raid, perhaps put in the Pits as a punishment by your master, and prospering (or at least surviving) against the odds until the revolution in Tyr freed you. Or something like that.
In Xabulba's, Irivis and I were paid to guard a caravan for House Ianto out of the City-State of Balic. We could be on that one, or a follow-up from that one, and know each other from there as well. We did have a fun exchange between the two of them going on for a little bit.
EDIT: Also, Aubrey, I was looking at maybe going Hybrid Bard/Artificer to match the alchemy style of my character's background. I'm not sure yet, and will need to play with the build a little first.
Given that both Irivis and Arakan are monstrous cowards and want to keep a wary eye on each other, I can imagine them travelling together.
I can change the backstory to a different city-state and resistance movement and leave the mechanics of why she's lame the same. It was a good cover for an arcanist.
So it seemed we were lacking a defender, and I've been enjoying my fighter in Aardvark's campaign. Here is Calla, a human battlemind. I'll update the profile with full details over the weekend, so far it's just the summary from character builder. I'd appreciate a once-over from the resident 4e gurus :)
Calla
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She grew up as part of a small independent trading caravan, all close family, long journeys and marginal trades barely making enough to get by from city to city. Her education was informal but thorough. Mental powers from the feet of travelling scholars and psionics who joined the caravan for a month or a season. Physical prowess from the guards and her older brothers. Social skills from her family of trading uncles and the sales tactics of her mother.
Calla is quick of thought, speech, and deed. She seems almost lizard-like in her transitions from stillness to sudden movement. She often acts before fully considering the situation - useful in a fight, but the despair of her mother when negotiating a delicate sale. Her desert linens cover tough leather armor, and a well used wooden sword rests across her back.
In recent times she has been among the caravan's chief protectors. But as our story opens Calla has stormed away from her family after a bitter argument in the market of a small village somewhere near Tyr.
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Given that both Irivis and Arakan are monstrous cowards and want to keep a wary eye on each other, I can imagine them travelling together.
I can change the backstory to a different city-state and resistance movement and leave the mechanics of why she's lame the same. It was a good cover for an arcanist.
You could just be coming back to Tyr. I was just a bit bothered by the voluntary exile bit sounding permanent. It might be helpful to have at least one native.
How about she's just lying low for a while in an attempt to keep her skin whole?
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So it seemed we were lacking a defender, and I've been enjoying my fighter in Aardvark's campaign. Here is Calla, a human battlemind. I'll update the profile with full details over the weekend, so far it's just the summary from character builder. I'd appreciate a once-over from the resident 4e gurus :)
Calla
-----She grew up as part of a small independent trading caravan, all close family, long journeys and marginal trades barely making enough to get by from city to city. Her education was informal but thorough. Mental powers from the feet of travelling scholars and psionics who joined the caravan for a month or a season. Physical prowess from the guards and her older brothers. Social skills from her family of trading uncles and the sales tactics of her mother.
Calla is quick of thought, speech, and deed. She seems almost lizard-like in her transitions from stillness to sudden movement. She often acts before fully considering the situation - useful in a fight, but the despair of her mother when negotiating a delicate sale. Her desert linens cover tough leather armor, and a well used wooden sword rests across her back.
In recent times she has been among the caravan's chief protectors. But as our story opens Calla has stormed away from her family after a bitter argument in the market of a small village somewhere near Tyr.
Had a quick flick through. A couple of cooments (not criticisms, more clarification):
- like the backstory. However, it might be more fun if she's still part of her family's caravan, and that is where the action starts. But a bit of unresolved tension with the folks would still be good, bonding with the outsiders, yada yada.- I see you chose a sword. Nothing wrong with it, but you could consider a more setting-appropriate weapon. That said, I assume as a "quick" battlmind a sword might be more appropriate mechanically.
- what is a quick battlemind? I don't have my books - is it one of the basic types, as I don't recall the term.
- could you provide the nitty-gritty of the power effects and so on? If we need to run your character if you aren't here it's helpful to have that.
On reading a little further, I'll probably tinker with Calla's background a little. If we are all travelling with a caravan then she can be a bit more grown up and a paid guard, as I won't need her to storm off in a huff pre-adventure.
Any thoughts about whether we are with a large well equipped caravan from a great trading house, or a smaller outfit?
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How about she's just lying low for a while in an attempt to keep her skin whole?
Well, you could have the whole "revolutionary who bottled it" thing, but now the glorious revolution has come you are heading back. Of course, no one much is going to welcome you with open arms since you legged it when things got tough, but I don't think anyone's ging to be actively after you unless you betrayed them. (So, did you?)
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On reading a little further, I'll probably tinker with Calla's background a little. If we are all travelling with a caravan then she can be a bit more grown up and a paid guard, as I won't need her to storm off in a huff pre-adventure.
Any thoughts about whether we are with a large well equipped caravan from a great trading house, or a smaller outfit?
Like I said above, I'd actually leave her with her family. It could work well. But if it inteferes with things you have in mind, you can change it. That said, we can make her a family member of a larger trading house - that could also work well - with her family being more on the city-to-city trading side than the "sitting in a booth in a marketplace" side. That might involve a change of surname, though, with "Quick" as a nickname.
Cross post due to slow typing and multi-tasking :)
Happy to keep the things that resonate and tinker round the edges. I like the idea of starting in the family caravan, recently coming to see that she might not have to stay in the family caravan.
Yes, I'll absolutely provide all the power descriptions, bonuses, rolls, etc. Just wanted to get the basics up quickly.
'Quick' is one of the four basic types of battlemind (the others are Harrier, Resilient, and Wild). As the name suggests, they focus on using psionics to move quicker than possible for a natural warrior. But it feels more plausible than the outright teleportation or elemental bending of the other types.
Longsword was what the Character Builder chose when I hit the 'auto-gear' button. No problem looking for something more thematic. At the very least it will be wooden with sharpened bone inset.
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EDIT: Also, Aubrey, I was looking at maybe going Hybrid Bard/Artificer to match the alchemy style of my character's background. I'm not sure yet, and will need to play with the build a little first.
Just noticed this. I'm cool with it if you can get it to work and it feels Dark Sun-y (though as the most experienced DS type here, I'll trust your judgement on that one).
As an aside, have you read the Prism Pentad? I haven't, and don't like Troy Denning as a writer so would prefer to avoid it if I can, but I understand it's in those books that that the story of Kalak getting offed is set out. I have a quick query, if you know the answer. Basically, what are the characters of the people who killed Kalak like, at least as presented in those books? I'm less interested in Tythian (I know he goes bad later, but it won't figure in this campaign) and more in the others, as I'd like to use them as NPC hook-givers to some extent.
Heh! Well, I'm off to bed soon so that will be the end of the cross-post-chain-link-affair.
I like the idea of being part of a larger house, and that would explain why she has the training to be a controlled battlemind rather than the self-trained wilders that are common on Athas. Perhaps an unfavored cadet branch of the family, because I don't want to start off with lots of cash and resources and magical equipment and servants and ...
'Quick' was intended as more of a use-name than a legal surname. I like giving non-nobles from pre-industrial societies descriptive surnames. Feels authentic - in the same way that my surname (Cooper) is descended from a simple professional description.
Um. Possibly overthinking this. Time for bed!
Yes I've read the Pentad series, heck I've read all the DS novels, but that's what fanboys do. I do not like how much he changed the world in just the first 5 books, or how much he revealed about the old ages and stuff. As far as the NPC's do you want them spoilerized or just normal?
How about she's just lying low for a while in an attempt to keep her skin whole?Well, you could have the whole "revolutionary who bottled it" thing, but now the glorious revolution has come you are heading back. Of course, no one much is going to welcome you with open arms since you legged it when things got tough, but I don't think anyone's ging to be actively after you unless you betrayed them. (So, did you?)
I can imagine her going back to try and rebuild a some bridges. I doubt she betrayed anyone, but she's going to be edgy regardless. She's not too proud of her recent behaviour.
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Cool, I can get the PHB for about £11 I just wasn't sure if the Essentials stuff was a sensible fit/better fit....
Ok...
I have a vague idea of Darksun, I have the FreeRPG day product from when it released which covers the big concepts.
How long before you get your PHB? Also, since you've never played 4e before and DS adds some bells and whistles, do you want some assistance in creating your character?
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I can imagine her going back to try and rebuild a some bridges. I doubt she betrayed anyone, but she's going to be edgy regardless. She's not too proud of her recent behaviour.How about she's just lying low for a while in an attempt to keep her skin whole?Well, you could have the whole "revolutionary who bottled it" thing, but now the glorious revolution has come you are heading back. Of course, no one much is going to welcome you with open arms since you legged it when things got tough, but I don't think anyone's ging to be actively after you unless you betrayed them. (So, did you?)
That sounds good to me.
Others: There was a Halfling and a Dwarf that Rikus and Neeva knew in the arena. The dwarf died, and the halfling tried to offer them to the tribe they got the heartwood spear from, as a gift for the chieftan to eat. I think that's that basic of it.
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** spoiler omitted **
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Others: There was a Halfling and a Dwarf that Rikus and Neeva knew in the arena. The dwarf died, and the halfling tried to offer them to the tribe they got the heartwood spear from, as a gift for the chieftan to eat. I think that's that basic of it.
Cheers for that, very useful.
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From the first stuff I read about Darksun, I liked the idea of playing a Preserver. That seems like it's going to get pretty complex, pretty quickly though without the actual Darksun book ;)
A simpler approach would seem to be an Ex-Gladiator, (ex-slave, recently freed?). Quite a loner because of that, but hungering for some friendship after so long without. Quite probably far from where {he,she,it} was born, and looking to get back, and find any links that may still exist, despite that being a faint hope.
How does that sound?
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Sounds good. I think the preserver thing is covered to some extent by Irivis anyway. And the gladiator theme is heavily supported in the DS setting book (which is a good thing).
OK, if we go with ex-slave, are you a freed slave from Tyr (as part of the revolution)? Were you freed due through being a favorite of the crowd and winning lots of fights (frankly, as a lvl 1 character, that's maybe problematical, since you would expect to be a higher level; but then again, what if you are actually a bit older, you've done something else for a few years that didn't involve fighting so now you are a bit rusty (hence being lvl 1 "again") and are now heading back to Tyr for personal reasons)? Did you simply escape from somewhere and are now heading back to Tyr, looking over your shoulder for someone to drag you back but hoping to find refuge in "free" Tyr?
(In case it isn't clear from what you have read, all of the city-states are ruled by sorcerer-kings except Tyr, where the ruler Kalak was overthrown and killed. As part of the revolution, slavery was abolished, However, this isn't common knowledge everywhere - the sorcerer-kings are doing their best to keep a lid on it, and most people don't travel, so it's not that difficult, but even so rumours will have leaked out.)
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On the preserver thing, though, it is worth pointing out that actually preserving is dead easy - it's normal casting. Defiling is a specific single power which causes damage to your friends but provides a bonus to your casting, so it's actually fairly self-contained. So it wouldn't be a particular issue. Also, so far we don't have a controller, and a preserver wizard would help with that.
Moreover, it would give you a link to Irivis in-game. There's a sort of "preservers' club" called the Veiled Alliance, a secret society of which Irivis is a member (secret since most "ordinary" people don't get the gist of the difference between preserving and defiling and simply assume arcane caster = defiler). The Veiled Alliance will have some impact on the campaign.
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On the preserver thing, though, it is worth pointing out that actually preserving is dead easy - it's normal casting. Defiling is a specific single power which causes damage to your friends but provides a bonus to your casting, so it's actually fairly self-contained. So it wouldn't be a particular issue. Also, so far we don't have a controller, and a preserver wizard would help with that.
Moreover, it would give you a link to Irivis in-game. There's a sort of "preservers' club" called the Veiled Alliance, a secret society of which Irivis is a member (secret since most "ordinary" people don't get the gist of the difference between preserving and defiling and simply assume arcane caster = defiler). The Veiled Alliance will have some impact on the campaign.
Ok, so how about a Preserver, who managed through life fairly well, but then upset someone with some influence. Got thrown into the gladiatorial pits. He struggled along using his powers as best he could to stay alive, and the Veiled Alliance has just managed to arrange his freedom. It's precarious though, and heading for Tyr where he won't be re-enslaved seems like a good plan.
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Ok, so how about a Preserver, who managed through life fairly well, but then upset someone with some influence. Got thrown into the gladiatorial pits. He struggled along using his powers as best he could to stay alive, and the Veiled Alliance has just managed to arrange his freedom. It's precarious though, and heading for Tyr where he won't be re-enslaved seems like a good plan.On the preserver thing, though, it is worth pointing out that actually preserving is dead easy - it's normal casting. Defiling is a specific single power which causes damage to your friends but provides a bonus to your casting, so it's actually fairly self-contained. So it wouldn't be a particular issue. Also, so far we don't have a controller, and a preserver wizard would help with that.
Moreover, it would give you a link to Irivis in-game. There's a sort of "preservers' club" called the Veiled Alliance, a secret society of which Irivis is a member (secret since most "ordinary" people don't get the gist of the difference between preserving and defiling and simply assume arcane caster = defiler). The Veiled Alliance will have some impact on the campaign.
Yeah, problem is you would have been lynched most likely, rather than stuck in the pits. However, a lot of arcane casters are templars (i.e. in previous versions of the game they were sort of the "priesthood" to the sorcerer-kings, and are their hands and eyes in the broader world), and the protection of a sorcerer-king kind-of trumps any prejudices the common herd might have. It is conceivable that your character could have had a fall from grace - not necessarily with the sorcerer-king but with a senior templar - and needed to beat it out of town. Perhaps sympathies with and a connection to the Veiled Alliance (who are anti- the sorcerer-kings as they are the greatest defilers in town by a long chalk) could have had unfortunate ramifications, but on the other hand they got you out of town (maybe in the company of their operative Irivis).
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Yeah, problem is you would have been lynched most likely, rather than stuck in the pits. However, a lot of arcane casters are templars (i.e. in previous versions of the game they were sort of the "priesthood" to the sorcerer-kings, and are their hands and eyes in the broader world), and the protection of a sorcerer-king kind-of trumps any prejudices the common herd might have. It is conceivable that your character could have had a fall from grace - not necessarily with the sorcerer-king but with a senior templar - and needed to beat it out of town. Perhaps sympathies with and a connection to the Veiled Alliance (who are anti- the sorcerer-kings as they are the greatest defilers in town by a long chalk) could have had unfortunate ramifications, but on the other hand they got you out of town (maybe in the...
Hmm, yeah, that could be good. Perhaps something more along the lines of "caught with said senior templar's daughter in a *cough* compromising position". Which would mean that he doesn't have any sympathy's for the Veiled Alliance, but at the same time, owes them his life, and at this point, until he has more power, is quite reliant on Irivis....
Nothing like a few personality flaws to riff off :)
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Yeah, problem is you would have been lynched most likely, rather than stuck in the pits. However, a lot of arcane casters are templars (i.e. in previous versions of the game they were sort of the "priesthood" to the sorcerer-kings, and are their hands and eyes in the broader world), and the protection of a sorcerer-king kind-of trumps any prejudices the common herd might have. It is conceivable that your character could have had a fall from grace - not necessarily with the sorcerer-king but with a senior templar - and needed to beat it out of town. Perhaps sympathies with and a connection to the Veiled Alliance (who are anti- the sorcerer-kings as they are the greatest defilers in town by a long chalk) could have had unfortunate ramifications, but on the other hand they got you out of town (maybe in the...Hmm, yeah, that could be good. Perhaps something more along the lines of "caught with said senior templar's daughter in a *cough* compromising position". Which would mean that he doesn't have any sympathy's for the Veiled Alliance, but at the same time, owes them his life, and at this point, until he has more power, is quite reliant on Irivis....
Nothing like a few personality flaws to riff off :)
Well, I can't really see the Veiled Alliance getting out of bed to rescue a guy working for one of their chief enemies and who doesn't give a damn about them just because he had his hand up his boss's daughter's skirt. So if he has a detached relationship with the Veiled Alliance he would need to have some reason why they would bother. Also, if you have no sympathy with the Veiled Alliance, you are sort of leaning towards being a defiler, which is maybe not what you were after in the first place. I think a closer link to the Velied Alliance is probably more practical as a plot hook. Nothing, of course, that prevents you being the maddest shagger in Balic, or that being the cause of your fall-out with the boss...
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Well, I can't really see the Veiled Alliance getting out of bed to rescue a guy working for one of their chief enemies and who doesn't give a damn about them just because he had his hand up his boss's daughter's skirt. So if he has a detached relationship with the Veiled Alliance he would need to have some reason why they would bother. Also, if you have no sympathy with the Veiled Alliance, you are sort of leaning towards being a defiler, which is maybe not what you were after in the first place. I think a closer link to the Velied Alliance is probably more practical as a plot hook. Nothing, of course, that prevents you being the maddest shagger in Balic, or that being the cause of your fall-out with the boss...
Good point, well put..... Hmmmm I think we have a basis to be getting on with. Now to hope the post doesn't take too long...