Aubrey's Other Eberron Campaign - The Unbinding (Inactive)

Game Master Aubrey the Malformed

Good list Wultram.

I can't make rods yet, but they come along in 4 more levels.

Regarding wands, i can make those very fast thanks to Mythic Craft Wand. Also, i can make 3/day wands (instead of 50 charges and done) for the same price.

By all means reduce the items you don't want to their essence. As an out-of-game comment, don't rush to actually enchant anything yet. You will get time very soon, and you will also get some other equipment (especially the masterwork dragonhide breastplates) coming along soon as well.

Just a note on Wultram's comments...

Shatterspike Sword : 4315GP -> 2000GP Reagent
Boneless Leather : 6160GP -> 3000GP Reagent
Goblin Skull Bombs : 1200GP per -> 600GP Reagent Per (1800gp Reagent)
Collapsible Tower : 8160GP -> 4000GP Reagent

So, if he breaks those down, that would take 7 days, and result in a grand total of 10,800GP in reagents.

Adding +1 to one of our existing weapons would cost 750GP in reagent and 2 days.

Adding +1 to one of our existing armors would cost 400GP in reagent and 1 day.

Creating +1 cloaks would be 400GP in reagents and 1 day per.

We have enough to do 14 weapons to +1 (or 14 amulets of natural armor) with 300 in reagent left over.

We have enough to do 27 armors to +1.

We have enough to make 27 +1 cloaks.

Or some combination thereof. I think we should break those down and spend the time to magic up (especially since the GM has stated we'll have some down time). Even at 50% time spent working in the evenings, at this level, we can steadily add small stuff like cloaks, lenses (for perception boosts), amulets of natural armor, etc.

I'm glad you guys are crunching the numbers. It all sounds good.

I will second the CLW wands. It would be good to give at least one to someone with a good UMD score who is not Tal in case Tal goes down.

Otherwise, great job, BC, MDT, and Tenro!

Agreed! And given how Cole won't ever really be swapping out his armor, upgrading it incrementally is going to be one of his constant priorities. :)

I also have an ability that allows me to make more than one magic item per day as long as the value remains within the same limits. That only really works with very low magic items like Ioun Torches and such.

Regarding time, I get full value for time spent crafting while adventuring thanks to a class ability. On a normal adventuring day, I can do 4 hours for 4 hours progress, and on a travel day i can do 8 hours for 8 hours progress (unless we are doing a forced march to go farther faster).

@Aubrey: Since we are hammering out crafting stuff, do you allow the custom crafting option of adding effects with +50% price to the cheaper effect? (Say for example Amulet of mighty fist +1/natural armor +1 priced at 7k) Not really relevant right this moment, but it might be something people want to consider later.

While Aubrey said there will be more stuff coming, I figured to do some prep work, the idea being we have something ready so it isn't so much work at that time.

So amulet of mighty fist is essentially worth 2 weapons, Wultram and Nalverren(I think?) probably do not need one. So that would same as 6 weapons. 6x750= 4500

Then get everyone +1 armor and +1 cloak of resistance. 14x400=5600

That leaves us with 700 essence left. Use that to get the wands?

No, I don't. That sounds incorrect to me as an option since you are violating the requirement for slots to be free. Per the rules, an item which doesn't use up a slot costs double. But even then that's for specific, slotless items, not for combining items together that should occupy slots.

I might consider it, but only if the cost of the most expensive item is doubled, rather than the cost of the least expensive just increased by 50%.

Just to clarify Aubrey, the rules Wultram talked about with the adding 50% to the cost is per the core rules.

Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

So, per that rule, if you wanted to have say a +1 Cloak of Resistance that also functioned as a set of Muleback Cords, then the cost would be :

1,000 GP (Cloak of Resistance) + 1,000 GP (Muleback Cords) + 500 gp (+50% price increase) = 2,500 GP

If you increase it to a CoR +2, you just add the difference in cost between a +1 and a +2 to the price.

Again, that's per the core. If you're disallowing that, that's fine, GM fiat and all.

Should we assume you are allowing things like Tattoo's? Given those are double normal cost (which is basically just making them slotless).

Well it is under custom items that already fall under GM purview as matter of coarse. Still yes, I think you misunderstood what I ment.

It is the same formula that for example belt + 2 con +2 dex would use., Instead of being priced at 8k (as +2 is 4k item each), it is 10k so 50% increase on the 'cheaper'(as same price on effects on this case) effect, counting for the extra 2k.

Now if that is a no go that is perfectly fine by me. However I would like to present the argument that it really helps with some of the more unique items getting used, as nobody is going to sacrifice their cloak slot for anything other cloak of resistance past level 10 or so, well few builds could do it if the gain was high enough.(Say dwarf paladin with the steel soul feat.)

Yeah, but the core rules also say:

3 An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double.

You aren't talking about additional powers (generally, some sort of spell-like power - the example given is a helm of brilliance, which basically allows you to cast a few spells and has limitations in terms of charges). You are talking about taking a whole item and effectively making it slotless by incorporating it into another that would occupy that slot as well.

It's also worth pointing out that those rules are intended as a guide for creating new magic items, not for crunching existing ones together. And they are a guide, not hard and fast rules - many items deviate from them - so treating them like they are would be a mistake.

The main reason the slot rules are there is to limit the number of items a person can have and effectively use at one time. The suggestion above basically violates that. So I am not overly happy about it, to be honest, because it takes away an element of balance and the necessity to assess the trade-offs and pick the items you really want. Producing a series of items on a production line so everyone, for example, has matching cloaks of resistance is fine and dandy, and it's probably a great look too for the party, but if you are going to do that then you will need to realise that you maybe won't use the less vanilla shoulder items too because you wan't have the slots available. So, actually, maybe everyone doesn't want a cloak of resistance after all.

I don't have any rules for tattoos, so no, I wouldn't be too happy about those either.

Well, it's not really slotless, as it is in the item and can be stolen, damaged, etc. A truly slotless item can't be targeted, etc. But it's up to the GM.

For information, Tattoos are from the Inner Sea Magic book. Basically, they are slotless items with a restriction that they must be tattoo'd on the spot a normal slot would be. For example, muleback cords have to be tattoo'd on the shoulders, and cost 2,000gp (slotless item cost).

Basically then, it sounds like if Tal wanted Muleback Cords, but also a cloak, he could just pay 2000 to have Muleback Cords Lucky Coin as a slotless item he keeps in his pocket.

As said I am perfectly fine with it not being option, so at this point I am more talking shop than anything else.

The belt example I gave is an actual item in the game

Well it isn't so much that someone might want something else than cloak of resistance, it is the fact that after certain level outside of few corner builds. It is a must have item, or you fail, it is that simple.(as long as you go with assumption of relatively standard game) The bix six items are in the assumed math of the system and out of those said cloak is the most important of them all.(in the sense that it is by far the most expensive to work around and has the biggest drawbacks of not having it) That is why I used it spesifically as example.

Still yes you get most of the benefits of slotless for 150% instead of 200% price. Not all but most.

Also yes using the custom items guidelines as rules, would be a horrible mistake. Hell there has been more than fair amount of threads spesifically having fun with creating the most broken thing they could come up with.

Personally I see the +50%(or +100% for slotless), and adding charges to items(say you wanted boots of haste with 20 rounds instead of 10) as the good ones. More or less everything else goes case by case basis. Well everything goes by that, but with the mentioned rules it has been most likely a formality.

Basically then, it sounds like if Tal wanted Muleback Cords, but also a cloak, he could just pay 2000 to have Muleback Cords Lucky Coin as a slotless item he keeps in his pocket.

Well no, Tal would have to choose. I'm not going to allow slotless items which are analogues of slotted items. I'm rescinding my comment above - no additional powers added at extra cost and no slotless alternatives. It could be subject to abuse and given mythic is already that way I think we'll keep the magic items standard.

So, in other words, big six items still mandatory, and no way to use other items. No problem, glad to know it though, as it affects what we can do with builds. Given the big six are mandatory, I suggest that we use the salvaged items to start making the mandatory big six items for everyone? That way we can get them out of the way. Everyone else agree?

The idea of the +50% cost for combining items is a trade-off. You're making a commitment. If i smash together a cloak of arachnida and a cloak of resistance, that is one item, defeated by a single dispel instead of two. And if i get a cloak of the bat later on that I want to use, i have to then choose.

However, if you make one or both slotless, no choice needed, just stack em up higher.

As a point of order, it isn't THE least expensive ability that costs more. If i smash 3 items together, all BUT THE most expensive item have the 50% added.

That said, doesnt matter to me. As a player i doubt we will be rolling in enough dough to afford to pay 50% more on items. As a character, Nalverren may or may not go big 6.

On top of that, many effects can be replicated other ways. For instance, a 3/day wand of extended Resistance or Magic Weapon, etc. Big 6 effects are the most vanilla and easiest to replicate otherwise effects. That said, action economy might suffer, and potential for increased vulnerability to ambush.

Well, whether you genuinely need the big six is debatable. That sounds like messageboard wisdom to me, and a lot of that is play-style dependent and on the role of the character. You have had virtually nothing up until now and it's been fairly reasonable. While I understand the concern, you are hardly without resources. If you trick about like magical Christmas trees with all the lights and fancy equipment, my only response will be to up the ante anyway which might get some (more) people killed. Bear in mind as well that the threats you will face are also bespoke - none of this is designed in line with a published module. If people have been designing characters on the assumptions that they will be able to find bespoke magical items to cover their vulnerabilities, you may need to think about other ways of getting around them. Nalverren mentions a few. And I also think the actual impact this has will not be very great either way. Nothing is stopping you getting the big six (whatever they actually are - I've not heard the term before, though I can probably guess a few) and there are more than six body slots. But if you want something different, you'll have to choose.

Yeah artificers are more fun when you play with whiz-bang 60s-Batman-utility-belt items rather than the boring +save +AC +atk.

Though i will try to do something like +dmg and +ability since we lack magical damage and higher ability scores let me do the fun things more often.

Unfortunately, unless you intentionally only use multiple things of lower threat levels than party level, the game system assumes the christmas tree. I've run this and D&D for close to two decades, and had players try to avoid the x-mas tree. It usually was ok until about level 9, then they started dying in droves.

It's fine, I'm used to x-mas tree games. Just need to know I'm in one is all.

Well i have terminal new-character-itis, so if i play under the curve and die i don't mind

You'll have plenty of magic items. You have (for the moment) an artificer, among other reasons. It's simply whether you really need the six items of ultimate power, or at least all of them on every single character. I've never seen the death-in-droves-at-level-9 phenomenon - like I say, a lot of this is probably play-style. Your DM will gauge things. I don't guarantee no one will die (though the only death that genuinely happened in combat, as opposed to just getting rid of PCs where the players had departed, was partly roleplaying decisions too). But I have done this before.

No worries from me, Aubrey. I trust you'll keep it balanced.

Also, Internet will be spotty for a few days. DMPC me as needed.

Yeah as noted, what I was saying was dependant on being about where the standard assumptions are. Also you are right in the fact that very few character needs all of the big 6, the term is mostly applied to the game as a whole not a single character. For example Wultram would benefit from a magic weapon about as much Cole would benefit from headband of cha.

The math I was speaking about:

Nonmagical AC caps off at around 20 or so if we ignore attribute bonuses since attacks gain those too(and are usually higher too). On the other simple BAB caps off at 1d20+20. So it does not take much to realize that if you are going to get targeted by your AC fairly often, you need to invest in some AC boosters. Granted it is expensive in character resources to get a solid defense against the first attack, on the itearitives it isn't quite so bad. Though then again lot of the bestiaries cheat via natural attacks.(That being said they usually have lower attack bonus than somene using levels that is the same CR) I don't think anyone would claim that as levels rise that you don't need AC boosters of somekind unless you have an ability that allows you to just not have AC matter (miss chance for example)

Saves are a bit more complex, because it depends on what class talking about. But as levels rise failinga save becomes nastier and nastier. Simply failing a save can essentially or literally take you completely out of the fight and some of those abilities/spells target more than a single member of the party. Say for example that you have a bad will save and no real reason to invest in Wis, so at 20th level you got +6 from class, now you in a good case got 12-14 Wis, so your save is +7-8. On the other hand the bare minium that 9th level spell DC is 23. So you have 75-80% chance of failure. Add in cloak of +5 and chances are a lot better, even if normally the DC would be at least a couple points higher.

Naturally both examples are at the most extreme end just to illustrate a point. Where the line of unacceptable chance of failure is personal opinion.

Again just talking shop. We have been doing fine in this game. Only time I personally have been lamenting lack of gear was against lot of archers and my measly AC that made me into pincushion.

Vaard (and Ashshar) is going to get his Breastplate of the Dragon Turtle fairly soon.

Since no one else expressed interest, I'm claiming it. At least for the moment, until

Vaard (and Ashshar) is going to get his Breastplate of the Dragon Turtle fairly soon.

...that.

Aubrey, I just found the need for a direction roll kind of funny because you had, a post or two previously, given us west for free when we took off and sailed into the sunset. Now in the morning we suddenly can't tell where east is, on a presumably clear day. It just jarred.

Survival is totally right for direction determination.

How did that other game work? Was someone particularly clever?

Yeah, good point, I sort of assumed that was your comment. Maybe it's tricky around mountains. Anyway, I assumed the DC was low.

On the other game, the details are a bit hazy now. But if you wanted to entertain or distract someone - Acrobatics. Move swiftly through a forest - Acrobatics. Work out which way is north - Acrobatics. Search a text for a critical passage - Acrobatics. A very versatile skill.

Ahh. Good times.

Tenro, nice find with unseen crafter.

Not sure which skill will help? Make a Knowledge: Acrobatics check!

I roll Acrobatics to hit!

Sorry for my absence,guys. My little family is in the middle of preparing for a move this weekend. So I'll try to stay available, but don't let Cole hold things up.

Sorry for not posting for a while - work getting a little crazy coupled with lack of sleep is taking its toll. Hope to post tonight.

Understood. Get some rest, Aubrey.

I can totally sympathize.

A bit like last time, I'm not sure this will work for non-UK listeners, but here's the Radio 2 tribute to John Williams.

This is biggerclub/wultram

Sorry about being gone, computer issues, had to format things and long story short, can't use last account.(if things change on that front I will note so, highly unlikely.) Will start catching up when I get things going.

No probs, noticed you were a little quiet. If you haven't already, I suggest you drop a line to Customer Services, although I guess they have to do things in line with security requirements.

MDT, sorry to hear about your surgery.

BC, I can sympathize.

Good luck to you both.

Sorry for my radio silence. Most of my time for the last few days has been spent moving my little family into a new home. I'm trying to get caught up on all my games.

Sorry for my radio silence. Most of my time for the last few days has been spent moving my little family into a new home. I'm trying to get caught up on all my games.

Did the move go well?

For the most part. We're really happy to be in a house instead of the apartment (no apartment was made for a family of five), but we still have a TON of boxes to unpack and clear out.

All in all, it was a good experience (if exhausting).

Thanks for asking. :)

Where in the world did you end up? Or was it just across town?

From north of Dallas to south of it. We have family down here ... which is a HUGE deal when you have little kiddos. (Cause free babysitting is life-changing.)

Congratz on the move. Hopefully the weather didn't make it too hard.

BTW: We're down in Austin, so apparently we're neighbors. :)

Glad you're through the move successfully, Eben. Wish we'd had that babysitting when my son was young.

The weather was pretty good, actually. A bit warm, but better that than rainy.

And hey, awesome! Austin's a fun town!

@therealthom: yah, it's been a serious game-changer. My wife and I have had so many more dates. :D

I dont’ see any language in the Warforged racial traits that would make me think he’s immune to weather or cold (just fatigue and exhaustion), so Cole will want to have some cold-weather gear on-hand.

So a few things that would be good to have:

Mwk Backpack (Definitely for Cole, but also good for anyone, really)
Cold weather outfit + furs (cheap way to boost saves, though encumbrance is a punk)
rations (not sure how necessary this is, but I hate to not account for it and run into problems)

These are the 3.5 racial traits for a warforged:

3.5 Edition[edit]

A warforged derives its hit dice, base attack bonus progression, saving throws and skill points from the class it selects.
Unlike other constructs warforged have a constitution score and do not have low-light vision or dark vision.
Unlike other constructs warforged are not immune to mind affecting spells and abilites.
Warforged are immune to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, effects that cause the sickened condition and energy drain.
A warforged cannot heal naturally.
Unlike other constructs warforged are not immune to critical hits, non-lethal damage, stunning, ability damage, ability drain, death effects and necromancy.
As living constructs warforged can be affected by spells that target living creatures as well as those that target constructs. Warforged can be healed by the Cure light wounds and Repair light damage spells however, they are vulnerable to disable construct and harm. However, spells from the healing sub-school and supernatural abilities that restore hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effect.
A warforged takes damage from heat metal, chill metal, repel wood, rusting grasp and Repel metal and Stone as if it were wearing metal armour.
Strenuous activity does not risk further injury to a warforged that has dropped to 0 hit points.
A warforged can be raised or resurrected.
Warforged do not need to eat, sleep or breathe but can still benefit from consumable items.
Warforged also receive a +2 armor bonus but cannot wear robes or armor though, a warforged can be enchanted.
Light Fortification (EX) a warforged has a 25% chance of reducing the damage of a critical or sneak attack into a normal hit.
Warforged have a natural attack that deals 1d4 damage.

We are basically using these, not the ones on the Eberron/Pathfinder website as they don't "feel" right.

Basically, I think you are right - a warforged isn't immune to non-lethal damage, which is the main risk of cold.

Linking Skellie in would be fine with Tal, he'd love that. Skellie would implode after about a minute. :) So it seems like Vaard and Rehil with the third alternating between Nalverran and Ashshar, usually Nalverran if Ashshar is going ranged are the best three then.

yeah Nalverren is a bit of a mid-range / second line / switch-hitter sort. If someone should be excluded, it may well be hum.

I took a peek at Ashshar's sheet. He's a solid switch-hitter, at least as good in melee as Rehil. Rehil's not dedicated to any particular combat style. He's been leveled up organically based on my perception of party needs at each level.

The flexibility is good in an Aubrey campaign, because combat situations are often unusual and fluid.

None of that will make Tal's job any easier. How does the link work mechanically? Is it feasible to set it up quickly at the onset of each combat? If not, then RP-wise it makes sense that Tal would protect his scaly kin.