Ascension - Thieve's Guild (Inactive)

Game Master bbangerter

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Stats:
HP = 70, F +9, R +2, W +12, Init +4; Darkvision 90', Scent; Perc. +14, Bluff +23, SM +16, Stealth +8

I haven't seen this other guy but I have seen some synthesis builds that are off the charts, guess that's what youre saying. That's the one class I never question why its banned.


Any final comments on either the arcanist (Alexia "Bishop" Hebert) or sandman bard (ginganinja)?

I find both back stories compelling, with hooks I can bring into the current story line along different avenues for each character.


Male Human Ranger 3(Skirmisher, Hooded Champion)

Would I be hated if I wanted to change my character? I'm not totally positive, especially if the Advanced Class Guide stuff is out, but its something I've been considering.

Sadly, I had forgotten 3pp stuff was disallowed, as I feel the Stalker from Dreamscarred Press' Path of War would fit perfectly in this game...


Changing to a different char is fine Nulmanen, but 3pp is still out.


Male Human Ranger 3(Skirmisher, Hooded Champion)

Is the ACG available? Its up on both SRDs, if that matters.

And, I was just grumbling a bit about Path of War. I knew it wasn't allowed still.

A boy can dream, can't he? lol


ACG is allowed.


Male Human Oracle 1 / Summoner (Synthesist) 5
Stats:
HP: 60, Initiative: +0, Perception: + 9, AC: 18(T: 16, FF: 12), CMD: 11, Fort: 6, Refl: 8, Will: 7

I cant personally decide between the two. For me its group dynamic of a female vs raw power of the arcanist. Those two elements are kinda hard to weigh against eachother.


Male Human Ranger 3(Skirmisher, Hooded Champion)

Thinking of going Investigator, any thoughts on that class? As we're a team, I don't want to just go ahead and switch classes without talking it over first.


Female Tiefling Arcanist 7

Greetings, I'm the new recruit. I have not built my Crunch yet and it seems like several of the other players in the group are in flux as well.
So before I got rolling on an incorrect premise I had wanted to ask a few things.

First of all what are you all looking for optimization wise in this? reading the discussion I have seen recently opinions on the hyper optimization of other players in different groups and had wanted to know the level of phenomenal cosmic power you would like me to bring to the table.

Second it seems like your ranger is thinking about becoming an investigator and your summoner is planning on becoming a monk? i think.
It would be good to know who plans on doing what before I start trying to slot my abilities around to fit in.
If Nulmanen plans to hit up investigator and Sicsivsicus is coming back to the game then we will be double covered on the skill monkey roll.
... wait who else is with us right now?

@monkeygod/ sidebar:

1. Hi. *Sanriel waves*
2. Consider the imperialist archetype as an investigator. Poison is horrible in pathfinder and the imperialist basically making all the important skills use your intelligence is ridiculous.

It seems like with this groups past incarnation the party was fairly heavily invested in save or suck spells and had a love/hate relationship with Ambush attacks. Also invisibility, fogs and climbing things.
With your inquisitor and Witch both dead (I think) I'm wondering what you guys would like out of me as a spell caster.

I had intended to go for the Brown Fur Transmuter archetype arcanist and focus my spell selections on getting the most bang for my buck out of those abilities. But that is going to rely on having transformation spells that each player considers desirable
It hits its stride at L9 when I'm able to pass around things like Beast shape and Aberration form. Right now the extent of it would be a superior version of Enlarge/reduce person and +6 stat boost spells.
I had been bouncing between the Void wizard and Divination(Foresight) schools using the Acranist school exploit to get access as a L1 wizard of that type.
Void wizard works off caster level and would give me an increasing No save debuff (-1 per2cl. currently -3) I could nail people with at 30ft. Trouble is it is a standard action so I could set the pins up but someone else would need to knock them down. However combined with blistering invective those negatives could make for quite a few easily knocked over pins.

Divination would let me spoil ambushes targeted at us fairly easily and both the normal divination and the foresight subschool abilities would permit for some shenanigans of their own.


Male Human Oracle 1 / Summoner (Synthesist) 5
Stats:
HP: 60, Initiative: +0, Perception: + 9, AC: 18(T: 16, FF: 12), CMD: 11, Fort: 6, Refl: 8, Will: 7

What we are looking for optimization-wise, I think, is something like Anthony currently, or Sic. Its a good all rounder with some powerful options, but nothing too shenanigansy or one trick pony.

I am personally in a bit of limbo in regard to character. Right now Im considering a character who has one really powerful attack, allowing him to keep moving and remain deadly. Currently that means a bite build, using Vital Strike with other feats to get a 4d6 bite with upwards of a +18 bonus.


Stats:
HP = 70, F +9, R +2, W +12, Init +4; Darkvision 90', Scent; Perc. +14, Bluff +23, SM +16, Stealth +8

Welcome Bishop!

Sounds like you got a good handle on things. Both where we're at as a group and how to optimize. I'll yield to Tony on such discussions as Sic wouldn't be as effective as he without his guidance.

Looking forward to gaming with you.


Female Tiefling Arcanist 7

Flexibility is the Arcanist's calling card so no worries on that front. I'll likely have to dump strength to keep the rest of my stats competitive with what I can only imagine is rather high optimization opponents. I plan on making my familiar a viable distraction for combat, Spells will be split up between several things but your Vital strike build will likely enjoy enlarge person with a +4 size bonus to str rather than the normal +2.

I've a few tricks in mind that would let me pack a significant punch a couple times a day but I will primarily be a utility/buff package. I don't have the stat array to try and make a self transmuter without dumping a bunch of stuff.
an intensify spell MM rod to hammer people with CL9 shocking grasp for 9d6 electricity sounds like a fun trick.

Do we have anyone in the party currently with crafting feats? I had been considering craft wondrous item, A ring of sustenance is a common purchase for casters at higher levels for me so having something to do with those 6 extra hours I'd be getting each day would be good.

In the long run I'm going to be hurting on odd levels when the cleric/wizard/druids have a full spell level above me to play with. I will be interested to see if all the complaining I'v heard about Arcanists being OP actually pans out when a player run wizard is the one opposing.

As to your Vital strike build, I'm going to assume that GM Ascension would rule in favor of permitting Vital strike to work with spring attack/ charges? I can't see many other high mobility vital strike builds outside of finding some trick to get an additional move action each round.
Otherwise a Vanilla druid statted for combat rather than spells could very easily out pace you at this level by wild shaping into a large creature and dropping Strong Jaw as a buff.

Never mind once they hit L8 and gain access to the ever horrifying Behemoth hippopotamus wild shape with its 4d8 base damage bite.

If big dice on single attacks are what interests you there is also the warpriest spiked shield trick. It might be an interesting route to pursue if you happen to be interested in rolling large numbers of dice while having good armor and being overall hard to kill.
Due to Warpriest increasing base weapon damage and both shield spikes and the Bashing shield quality increasing effective weapon size rather than base damage you can make some rather obscene dice codes with a basher priest.
Might be a bit much for this campaign though.

EDIT:
Missed your post Sicsivicus, I appreciate the welcome and hope we get to cause some havoc soon.
Inquisitors with Scent are awesome, too bad Scent of Fear never got reprinted in all its bugbear based glory. With your characters concept and combat method I could see such a thing being right up your alley.


Alexia "Bishop" Hebert wrote:


As to your Vital strike build, I'm going to assume that GM Ascension would rule in favor of permitting Vital strike to work with spring attack/ charges?

Nope

In a party vs monsters game I actually don't think it would be a problem house ruling that, but one thing the last two years has taught me for this game is that if I deviate from RAW I need to be very careful about it, and make sure everyone is aware of those changes. :)


I'm looking to get the game back into motion this week. That is going to be dependent though on Alexia being statted out, and for anyone changing characters, making that decision and statting out a new character as appropriate.


Female Tiefling Arcanist 7

Steadily working on Alexia, trying to build a caster prepared to take on any and all forms of attack all at once is starting to make my head hurt.

How does the selection of Traits work for this one? is it based off books, types of traits?
just as a sad fact of life there is no way Alexia is going to be much of a face character in this group. Thinking I'm going to set my headband of intellect to give me ranks in bluff and leave the heavy social lifting to others in the group.

I intend to select The Arcanist School understanding ability, it goes like this.

School understanding:

School Understanding: The arcanist can select one arcane school from any of the schools available to a character with the arcane school wizard class feature, but does not have to select any opposition schools. The arcanist gains one ability of that arcane school as though she were a 1st-level wizard, using her Charisma modifier in place of her Intelligence modifier for this ability. The ability must be one gained at 1st level and is limited in its use per day to 3 + the arcanist's Charisma modifier. As a swift action, the arcanist can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to bolster her understanding, allowing her to treat her arcanist level as her wizard level for the purpose of using this ability for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). During this time, she also gains use of the other ability gained at 1st level for her selected school. She does not gain any other abilities when using this exploit in this way, such as those gained at 8th level. If the arcanist already has an arcane school (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted the arcane school when determining the powers and abilities of her arcane school.

Now reading it the ability says I get to select one ability of an arcane school as though I were a L1 wizard. I intend to select the divination schools Forewarned ability in order to give Alexia the chance to turn ambushes on their heads. Thing is I'm a bit lost on if that is actually a legal selection, though for all my forum searching the assumption seems to be that the ability is a freebie that tags along with the other L1 diviner ability. Effectively being considered a L1 wizard of that school for the perks that you get.

I intend to polymorph my Familiar as a combat trick until I hit L9 and better targets appear ( that is you guys). So it would be very good to know what exactly would happen were I to polymorph my tiny scorpion into a Small creature. Do I just take the spell modifiers? Am I going to need to reverse engineer the size table to figure out what a normally tiny now small sized scorpion would have for stats before I change them with the spell effect? And the spell adds natural armor but seems to say noting on if I retain my original natural armor bonus if said bonus is better (or if said bonus stacks)

Planning on trading up with improved familiar for an Imp consular once it becomes a possible selection. So soon enough I'll likely retire the concept and have my familiar hang back with a wand to spam debuffs or whatnot.

Oh and I'm likely going to have a boatload of questions relating to magic items that work for prepared/spontaneous casters. I am effectively both at the same time so most of them should work for me but I'll make sure to separate any items on my purchase list that uses either of those.


Male Human Oracle 1 / Summoner (Synthesist) 5
Stats:
HP: 60, Initiative: +0, Perception: + 9, AC: 18(T: 16, FF: 12), CMD: 11, Fort: 6, Refl: 8, Will: 7

Afaik, natural armor from magic, stacks with existing natural armor.

btw, a really strong pick is to get the exploit that grants a bloodline, then taking the Fey bloodline and using Sorcerers Robes to effectively stagger an enemy three times per day with no save, assuming you put it onto something like Magic Missile.

I am not making much headway, so might have to roleplay Anthony a bit. Just putting it out there in case I dont settle on something in time.


Male Weremonkey Rogue/Ranger/Trickster

Can I get some feedback on possibly going Investigator? It's definitely an interesting class, but I'd like people's opinions on it before I definitely switch.


Male Human Oracle 1 / Summoner (Synthesist) 5
Stats:
HP: 60, Initiative: +0, Perception: + 9, AC: 18(T: 16, FF: 12), CMD: 11, Fort: 6, Refl: 8, Will: 7

Id go for what you feel like playing, though I will say we will probably miss the raw ranged damage. Im not too familiar with the new classes though, so maybe im wrong on that front, but it doesnt look like the damage will be that great when just looking at the class.


Stats:
HP = 70, F +9, R +2, W +12, Init +4; Darkvision 90', Scent; Perc. +14, Bluff +23, SM +16, Stealth +8

Im not that familiar with them either. Actually just became aware of them a week or so ago.


Female Tiefling Arcanist 7

Bark skin stacks with natural armor, polymorphic spells don't seem to say one way or another.

I can't really see myself selecting a bloodline other than arcane as this class. With the ability to increase level and then drop back down you can deselect abilities that you lose once the ability stops working (and it will be short for me until I can afford a significant charisma boost.)
At least I can't see it without selecting the blood archetype and just flat out getting a sorcerer bloodline.

As to the investigator I get the feeling you will end up playing second banana to our investigator unless you know how to leverage the class. In a normal game I'd say go for it but for PVP I question what exactly it is you are hoping to get out of the class and how that is going to positively impact our party.


Male human Nerd 2

The second instance of investigator is supposed to be inquisitors.


Alexia "Bishop" Hebert wrote:

Steadily working on Alexia, trying to build a caster prepared to take on any and all forms of attack all at once is starting to make my head hurt.

How does the selection of Traits work for this one? is it based off books, types of traits?
just as a sad fact of life there is no way Alexia is going to be much of a face character in this group. Thinking I'm going to set my headband of intellect to give me ranks in bluff and leave the heavy social lifting to others in the group.

I intend to select The Arcanist School understanding ability, it goes like this.
** spoiler omitted **

Now reading it the ability says I get to select one ability of an arcane school as though I were a L1 wizard. I intend to select the divination schools Forewarned ability...

Standard 2 traits using normal rules - that is the traits must be from different categories. Note that Finding Haleen is banned (as that trait is essentially the toughness feat).

For the exploit, my reading on forewarned is you could use forewarned 3 + cha mod times per day (at 7+ that should be more than enough). If you expect combat to be about to happen you could use a swift to temporarily boost your effective wizard level to gain the bonus to init.

As for Natural armor, magical enhancements to NA stack with a creatures normal NA - polymorph however would remove a creatures normal NA (along with all other normal stats) to complete replace it with the new types stats - whatever those might be.


Male human Nerd 2

so you are saying campaign traits other than Finding Haleen are up for grabs?

@Forewarned. So X/day I can elect to act in a surprise round I have no reason to be involved in?
Is it sad that I'm actually alright with such a severe nerf of a wizard ability that is normally active all day? Taking the foresight school means I can access 3+X rerolls a dy as well.
Man, Now I'm going to need to figure out what else I can dump so I don't have to tank Charisma. Strangely enough only about one third or so of all the Arcanist abilities actually require it.

@polymorph: Ok. I think polymorph spells are going to be of limited utility for what I was thinking of then. A rather large chunk of my familiars AC is (+2)Size/NA(3) based. Tanking AC for a strength boost I wasn't planning on when my plan was to boost Dex to become even harder to hit (and ignore STR with an Agile AOMF) seems counter-intuitive.

Though If I happen to need an extra set of hands Alter self on my familiar ought to result in interesting things.


Male human Nerd 2

Still not entirely complete (and building a growing list of reasons why the Arcanist is not nearly as scary as people say it is)
But the general gist is there.
Alexia.
Shamelessly stole Anthony's organization method.

Suppose the big ticket items will be the rather high saves I can force on my spells (DC21 with a L3 spell) and the potential to make nasty murder beasts out of my party members with enlarge person/bulls strength.
Though to be honest I'm still unsure if the Divination school selection is actually worth the investment. The Arcanist teleport ability is also really cool and I have yet to find a decent spot in my build for Consume Magic item.
Quick Study lets me re prep a spell if I need something else. An ability I will be required to use due to the painfully limited number of prepared spells to spontaneously cast the arcanist can have each day.

Oh and I can craft wonderous items.
Are we allowed to take the familiar Archetypes provided on the PFSRD? Valet looks amazing.

Having looked into the matter did any of you know that you can spot a scrying sensor with a DC 20+spell level perception test?
Scrying
Seems like if we are going to be opposing mages it would be something we need to consider.


Nulmanen,

Do you know if you plan to switch yet? Or should we get things going while Alexia finalizes the details on her character?

Anthony, the mages summoner declined swapping out from his summoner for now.

Alexia, recommend taking a point in linguistics and picking up cyclopian - it's been the chosen language in lieu of a thieve's cant language.


Male Human Ranger 3(Skirmisher, Hooded Champion)

I'm still debating, but I don't want to hold up the game more than it already has.


Male human Nerd 2

Would that sort of thieves cant be something an outsider would know? I had considered taking the language but I hadn't wanted to imply that 'The Mistress' trusted a free agent enough to teach them the language you guys all depend on being mostly secret.
Out of game I absolutely want the secret thief language. Though with two of your party slain and likely magically interrogated I have doubts that the language stayed secret.

I assume having some holdout trick to neuter a party of overbuffed mages would be good for Alexia to invest in?
1800 GP would net me a Scroll of Anti-magic field. With warning enough of a trick to Murder the summoner (or other over buffed casty type) with focused fire from everyone before sending my scorpion skittering off.
It would likely cost me my familiars life though.

@Nulmanen:If you end up staying as this character, a question.
Did DM Ascendant ban the Bracers of Falcon's aim? Not that I would blame him, that item is absolutely unfair on archers. There is literally no reason to not use them if they are permitted though.


Male Human Ninja/6 - 17/61
Stats:
Max HP 61, Attack +9, AC 20, Fort +4, Reflex +9, Will +4 (+2 vs Divination): Init: +4. Perception +8, Bluff: +13, Diplomacy +8, Sense Motive: +7, Stealth: +12

So anthony, that means you should go to complete broken mode :)


Stats:
HP = 70, F +9, R +2, W +12, Init +4; Darkvision 90', Scent; Perc. +14, Bluff +23, SM +16, Stealth +8

^ word!


Movin wrote:

Would that sort of thieves cant be something an outsider would know? I had considered taking the language but I hadn't wanted to imply that 'The Mistress' trusted a free agent enough to teach them the language you guys all depend on being mostly secret.

Out of game I absolutely want the secret thief language. Though with two of your party slain and likely magically interrogated I have doubts that the language stayed secret.

I assume having some holdout trick to neuter a party of overbuffed mages would be good for Alexia to invest in?
1800 GP would net me a Scroll of Anti-magic field. With warning enough of a trick to Murder the summoner (or other over buffed casty type) with focused fire from everyone before sending my scorpion skittering off.
It would likely cost me my familiars life though.

@Nulmanen:If you end up staying as this character, a question.
Did DM Ascendant ban the Bracers of Falcon's aim? Not that I would blame him, that item is absolutely unfair on archers. There is literally no reason to not use them if they are permitted though.

As someone who would be fairly high rank in the Usturn you would be aware of it. Whether or not you'd bothered to learn the language yourself is left as a role playing decision. It could be interesting to not have the language for the first little bit.


Male Human Ranger 3(Skirmisher, Hooded Champion)

I'm sorely tempted to switch to a Ninja suddenly...


Stats:
HP = 70, F +9, R +2, W +12, Init +4; Darkvision 90', Scent; Perc. +14, Bluff +23, SM +16, Stealth +8

Whats the Usturn?


Male human Nerd 2

Theives guild from Issut Hold

I also get the feeling that just advancing the arms race with the mages will make things worse. Unless we can achieve a flawless victory someone will escape to tell the mages, then X's brother who curiously enough is specialized in ability Y that completely counters our tricks will show up to kill us all.

I'd say go for the mages connections with the city guard and the people of Coran. Reconsolidate and make an information network strong enough to keep the Mage group running in circles.
Might even be able to gain the aid of the Merchant group depending on how we word the offer. Merchants like money and good smuggling routes after all.


Male Human Ranger 3(Skirmisher, Hooded Champion)

GM, would a Ninja be allowed? I know some don't let them in a game lacking an Eastern flavor, so I want the OK first.

If one is not allowed, could I go Gunslinger instead?


Yes, though Vaek is already a ninja, so you'd have a lot over overlap.


Male Human Ranger 3(Skirmisher, Hooded Champion)

Ah, I did not know that, or rather, forgot. While I'm sure I could make a different enough ninja to not be too similar, I think I will go Gunslinger instead, if that's OK.


Male human Nerd 2

Looks like we are double covered on skill characters/strikers.
Antony is the acting main fighter and partial buff character.
We could seriously use a full divine caster but Sic should be able to manage some of that sort of stuff.
And then you were set up as the main damage cannon with all those ranged combat feats.

I would say that a pistolero gunslinger would make for some good times if this is your interest.
pretty much all other archetypes beside musket master are worse than core.
I imagine that advanced guns will be off the table but you can always dream.

With player characters having full health per level you are likely going to have some trouble actually killing things kind of a sad fact but in this setting hit point damage is nerves in comparison to save or die spells.
Well unless you happen to be riding g the bleeding edge of damage capacity. taking off all the breaks and dual weilding double pistols would likely keep you relavent even with the nerf.

Frankly unfortunate that gunslingers are going to find my core mechanic (transforming allies into other forms with beast shape/abberant shape giant form and such) mostly useless with the problems increasing or decreasing in size brings with a character using guns.
Though a pistol slinger turning into a multi-armed form could be very fun. More so once you get clustered shot and don't need to worry over DR. Then you can play with non-magical guns and still murder things.


Gunslinger is open. Have at it. But yes advanced guns are unavailable, just the default tech level for the gunslinger class (can't remember what that is classified as right now... early firearms?)


Male Weremonkey Rogue/Ranger/Trickster

Emerging, aka there's some small guilds, lone crafters, etc that make guns.

Early firearms is a step up from the baseline


Male human Nerd 2

Hrmm... so can an Arcanist use pearls of power? Or do I need the rhinestones of bowie bling or whatever it is that fills the same rules for spont casters.
It looks like pages of spell knowledge work for me due to my spontaneous cast list I can recreate each day. Same for a ring of spell knowledge.
Same for spellbooks that have preparation rituals, as the class does in fact prepare spells and then spontaneously cast them.

Beyond that I had wanted to know your opinion on how shrink item works. Most GMs I played with used the size limitations based off the water displacement method of size. Some on the web believe the spell doesn't work like that though, so it would be good to know your opinion. For downtime I intend to utilize the spell heavily, 200ish gallons of molten lead is a very bad thing to find yourself in after all.


That's a good question. My initial thought is that no, they can't user pearls of power, but I could see that actually going either way. Going to see what the rules lawyers think just to get some additional perspective.


Female Tiefling Arcanist 7

That is kind of depressing as the Pearls of power are half the price of the Runestones for no damned reason.


Stats:
HP = 70, F +9, R +2, W +12, Init +4; Darkvision 90', Scent; Perc. +14, Bluff +23, SM +16, Stealth +8

Been a rough week so apologies for the delay in posting. working on hopping back in now.

GM question - do I need to adjust any of Sic's gear to account for dying?


Sicsivicus wrote:

Been a rough week so apologies for the delay in posting. working on hopping back in now.

GM question - do I need to adjust any of Sic's gear to account for dying?

Keep all your gear. I'm not counting the death while you were an NPC against you.


Alexia is your character finished up yet? Or are you still making adjustments?

Monkeygod, have you started on a gunslinger yet?


Male Human Ranger 3(Skirmisher, Hooded Champion)

For right now, I'll stick to the Ranger. I'm still torn tween the two, so to not hold things up I'll keep him as is till I can decide, if that's OK.

If not, I'll just stay Ranger. Was thinking of changing to try something new, but its not super important.


Yep, that is fine.


Female Tiefling Arcanist 7

No I have not actually finished purchasing stuff. I saw the number of people wavering on what they wanted to do and fell into a lethargic lull. Had not wanted to get everything set up and shiny only to see I needed to change one thing or another.
I will do my best to have it done today/tomorrow so we can get rolling.


Female Tiefling Arcanist 7

Does anyone know what happened to the Quadria faction trait Eastern mysteries? It seems to have completely vanished from both D20pfsrd and Archives of nethys.
I wouldn't be surprised if it got banned/removed but I'm at a bit of a loss as to why it is entirely absent.
I'm really considering extra traits though as so many necessary skills for this sort of game are not class for Arcansist. Nice they have UMD. Makes me sad all of the (int to skill) traits don't also grant proficiency.

Oh and are there any issue with me waiting until 9th level to select an Imp Consular for a familiar? I'd take the feat now and just delay my choice until L8 to be able to grab it quicker but reading the feat tells me such a use is questionable.

Once I get access to an actual computer rather than my mobile at work ill get the crunch down buy my emergency tricks and likely save a chunk of money to turn into crafting supplies once we actually start rolling in the game. Those extra 5 hours from the ring of sustenance will be put to good use.

Also considering trading vermin speech for the stat but to Int tieflings can get off the chart. I didn't select it before because it was cheesy in my opinion but if we are going for broke I can roll with it. Vermin speaking sounds really cool but another +2 boost to my primary skill is hard to argue against.


Male Human Oracle 1 / Summoner (Synthesist) 5
Stats:
HP: 60, Initiative: +0, Perception: + 9, AC: 18(T: 16, FF: 12), CMD: 11, Fort: 6, Refl: 8, Will: 7

I wouldnt personally take the int because yes, its the moldiest cheddar. Vermin speak also has great potential. With food bribes, getting intel on a building fx will be all too easy.

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