In the spirit of sharing and strategizing, I’d like to create a series of threads, one for each character. The idea would be to explain how you play that particular character and why. What cards do you feel you NEED to stock in your deck or try extra hard to acquire because they are central to your strategy of how you will play this character? What skill, power and card feats did you choose and why? If they are helpful enough, maybe Paizo will even sticky them. But that is up to them.
To be clear, this isn't about the belief that there is only one way to play a character. Because there is only one way to play a character: the way that makes it fun for YOU to play. This is more about sharing ideas that maybe someone else hasn't thought about before.
I decided to try this because there are more than a few forums asking for advice about a certain character. And I've personally (and other have as well I think) discovered I wasn't actually following the rules when I see things others have posted.
And I also thought about the fact that I've not felt interested in playing Seelah. But then I thought, maybe that is just because I don’t realize how to play her. So maybe there are others out there too that might discover through this that a character as experienced is not the same as the character as theory and realize they might like to try a new character they would have assumed they’d hate playing.
And it can also provide feedback to the design team. They’ll see the things we are doing with their characters. Maybe they’ll be benevolent and add more things to help the way we play. Or maybe they’ll be malevolent and add things to hinder the way we play. But either way they’ll have feedback.
When posting, please be so kind as to follow these guidelines:
- Specify the size of the group you play the character (or this version of the character) in and what other characters are in your group. That can effect your decision making for your character. You might want Seoni to carry Speed if she's with Sajan and Mersiel, but she might be better off with Glibness if its just her and Lem.
- Limit your posts to things that are central to your strategy. For example, Holy Candle is a great card and probably every group wants to have someone have it. But unless there is a reason your character has to have it for your strategy, please don’t mention it. In other words, “My version of Merisiel has Holy Candle because I cycle my cards pretty well,” might help thinking about whose deck to put Holy Candle in, but it isn't helpful about your strategy for playing Merisiel. But saying, “I give Sajan items like Holy Candle because he can get their full value of use and then bury them, which helps him cycle his blessings around faster,” is a part of your strategy for Sajan and something others might want to consider trying.
- For now, let’s limit it to discussing just what is on the standard class of each character and save the role cards for when Deck 4 gets released. But if you choose a card or a feat because you are working towards a certain role card, feel free to state that. If this is popular, we can make threads for the role cards later.
If this is not something anyone else would like, then I apologize for wasting your time reading the preceding paragraphs. You can hold out hope that it will be so unpopular that it will soon fall way down the list of threads, never to be seen again.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. In the next few minutes I’ll start a thread for each character with a similar name to this one. If you want to share please do so in a spirit of cooperation and kindness.
My other favourite character (along with Amiri).
I mostly play her in six player solitaire, and her abilities really suit large games. Other characters in the current group are - Amiri, Merisiel, Seoni, Lem and Harsk.
Power feats taken were extra card, and recharge spell as well as blessing when using her extra 1d6 power. Improving that bonus is next. Card feats, spell first, then probably extra weapon to increase the chances of getting one at the start (which is her major drawback).
In terms of strategy:
Use the scouting ability every turn. If I turn over something I really want (holy candle, elven breastplate, etc) then I move somewhere else and make a call about whether to try and pick it up, when I see how much time I have towards the end. Scouting ability is also really nice for Shrine of Lamashtu, since you have a pretty good chance of avoiding 1 or 2 of the blessings.
Use the power for the extra d6 whenever an important roll comes up such as closing a location (really important in 6 player games), acquiring a good item, etc. Losing the card is not very important since each character only gets 5 turns and the most important ones (the blessings) get recharged instead anyway.
Armor is very helpful, particularly if you can get an elven breastplate. It means that anytime you have an unimportant fight, you can risk losing it and not really worry about the damage. I.e. skeleton horde, goblin invasion, etc, same with summoning a bandit at the guard tower.
Card selection is mostly fairly standard. I gave her Father Zantius though since it helps her with divine checks (and I often send her to locations with divine to close) and meant she could drop cure. Spells are find traps and augury (though aid is up there too). Traps can hurt, but with find traps and her +1d6 she still succeeds most of the time.
Her biggest weakness is if she doesn't start with a weapon. In this case I usually have Amiri give her one (if she has a spare), otherwise she can lose quite a few fights early on. Her armour means this won't hurt much, but losing the explorations can be a problem.
It took me a while to figure her out, and I really didn't like her in small games, but for the 6 character groups she is the first one I include.
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While Oroniss summarised Seelah pretty well in my opinion, the Paladin is my favorite Class since I started playing ad&d 2nd Edition 20 somewhat years ago, so I try to add some of my thoughts:
I played Seelah solo through Perils, Burnt Offerings and Skinsaw Murders and started her in a 6 Character Group with Lini, Harsk, Merisiel, Ezren and Seoni.
For Skill-Feats I went in both Cases with her strengths (Strength first then Wisdom and Strength again) and left the weakspots Dexterity and Intelligence to Allies or other Characters.
Power Feats I prefer to go with improving the bonus d6 first (spell recharge befor +1).
I don't think her limited handsize is as troublesome as for some other Characters like Sajan.
With Card Feats I feel the second Spell is a good first Choice and I feel Allies are always a good Choice for their flexibility, but I tend to make my second card choice more based on the problems that came up during the last few Scenarios.
For Stategies:
Divine Gace
Don't be afraid to use your bonus d6. 40% of your Cards will be recharged and with the Spell upgrade you can easily get half your Deck rechargeble. As soon as you have a solid hand it will cut out the ballast and turn into a 100% recharge cycle.
Detect Evil
The Bonus Scouting is really powerfull. While I don't agree to use it every Round it helps you to cut your exploration Time down quite a bit.
I tend to use it in certain Locations (Garrison/ Shrine), to get an advantage over the Blessings Deck, or when I feel confident in the Equipment of my group.
Plus since you use it at the Start (or End) of your Turn you can move away, if the Top-Card is an early unwanted Villain.
I tend to use it more in bigger Group Games than Solo Games for the simple reason that you have to make the most out of every turn in bigger Games.
Building your Deck:
I feel getting magical Armor (not necessarily Shields) is the most important thing for Seelah, even if they are only light and if you can convince the other players to give them to you. All light Armor Classes have a way to turn unwanted Handcards into something usefull, but Seelah not only need one Armor in her Starthand, her only way to get rid of unwanted extras, that clot your hand, is to take voluntary Damage. Beeing able to recharge them at the end of your round will do wonders for your limited Hand-Size.
For spells I prefer to start with a basic Detection Spell and aim to trade it in for Find Traps as soon as possible. It might give you only more of your Basic dies, but with your other possible bonusses this will add up quickly. For the second Spell i tend to start with Cure if available, until I get a feeling for the changes in difficulty.
Generally I try to keep Seelah to Divinations and leave support and combat spells to the Cleric/Bard/Druid.
For Allies I prefer the Sage and the Troubadour since they offer a d6 Bonus to Seelahs d4-Skills.
Having seen the HMM-Cards I feel Seelahs biggest weakness is going to be her inability to use Items. The number of Cards that give more permanent or reusable Bonusses startet strong and got even better with every Adventure Deck. And with Seelahs already average Skills I fear she might loose even more, if bigger Bonusses come around in the secend half. Her Divine Gace is good but can compensate only so much.
Thoughts on Seelah/things I've noticed playing her solo:
Seelah's charisma die doesn't make any sense. I mean, I get it from a RP standpoint, but the game seem all that interested in RP.
with the above being said, however, I've found that her d8s are not as horrible as I thought they were going to be. I can still be fairly effective, even if I just end up rolling a pile of d8s.
I put my skill bonuses into wisdom, just so that I could recharge her spells in a timely manner. Think is important as her only heals are her spells (barring picking up the occasional healing item that I can find, but not keep).
For card feats, I bought two spells (more cures) and a blessing (so I can trigger her power more).
Power feats were fairly straight forward: add spells to the list of cards that recharge, increase the bonus to 1d6+1, and increase hand size to 5 (the sweet spot of hand size, imho). I picked crusader over her other role cause adding a free 1d8 with the magic trait lets her defeat enemies like Iesha Foxglove (who are not combat checks but require magic anyway).
For Stategies:
Divine Gace
Don't be afraid to use your bonus d6. 40% of your Cards will be recharged and with the Spell upgrade you can easily get half your Deck rechargeble. As soon as you have a solid hand it will cut out the ballast and turn into a 100% recharge cycle.Detect Evil
The Bonus Scouting is really powerfull. While I don't agree to use it every Round it helps you to cut your exploration Time down quite a bit.
I tend to use it in certain Locations (Garrison/ Shrine), to get an advantage over the Blessings Deck, or when I feel confident in the Equipment of my group.
Plus since you use it at the Start (or End) of your Turn you can move away, if the Top-Card is an early unwanted Villain.
I tend to use it more in bigger Group Games than Solo Games for the simple reason that you have to make the most out of every turn in bigger Games.Building your Deck:
I feel getting magical Armor (not necessarily Shields) is the most important thing for Seelah, even if they are only light and if you...
So it sounds like you will only spend card feats on just Spells and Blessings so you can get the full effect out of your deck? Interesting way to play the character. Your idea makes it sounds like it would be more manageable that way. The way most people play this character is like the Inquisitor more than a Paladin. "She works like that concept as well".
Truth be told in the six character group I gave her a fourth weapon. (I have paused playing her solo)
This way she is more reliable against the later Henchmen/Villains. That way Merisiel don't have to kill them all by herself.
Plus after Stonegiants Seelah would be maxed out on blessings and spells so you can plan wich extras you want for the last two adventure decks.
So, while waiting for Deck 5, my wife and I started up a new group and have played to the end of Hook Mountain Massacre. She took Seelah, the single character I have never played nor seen played. I've changed my mind on her quite a bit.
But I was somewhat surprised to find that her healing power on her Hospitaler role doesn't require her to sacrifice her turn, as Kyra has to. Granted, she can't increase it to the level Kyra can, but still, that was an interesting twist.
I have a question on Seelah's scouting power.
You may examine the top card of your location deck at the start ([] or end) of your turn. If it’s a boon, put it on the bottom ([] or underneath the top card) of the deck.
If I choose "or end" as a power feat is the "or" inclusive or exclusive? That is, is she able to examine the top card at both the start AND the END of her turn if she chooses to, or if she chooses to examine at the start, is she not able to also examine at the end?
As usual csouth is correct. Mike Selinker confirmed this in his June 2nd post in this thread.
At the end of the class decks design, we got into a long discussion about what "or" and "and" mean. Basically, because of the "cards don't have memories" rule, we unanimously came down on the side of both conjunctions allowing you to do whatever it is at whenever it says, regardless of whether you did it at any other time. So if she has that box checked, Seelah could use her examination power at the start and at the end of the turn. We haven't officially clarified any of this yet, nor have we settled exactly how we will clarify it, but we are planning to do so.
But I was somewhat surprised to find that her healing power on her Hospitaler role doesn't require her to sacrifice her turn, as Kyra has to. Granted, she can't increase it to the level Kyra can, but still, that was an interesting twist.
I guess the trade-off being she has to bury a card versus discarding it, and she can't upgrade it. Regardless, a little touch of variety is nice.
Now that we've completed the AP I know how tight skills are. I don't think I'd want to play anyone with less that 6 hand size by the end, so two powers go to that and it feels like the rest of her powers, the recharging cards and scouting for boons, are so crucial I'd focus on them before worrying about healing. Though, in my experience, that sort of time-wasting heal quickly becomes unnecessary. Even in our duo game with 6 locations, Kyra almost never used her innate healing power past AP2 or 3, maybe like twice in the whole rest of the Adventure. If I were picking powers for Seelah, I'd probably avoid it unless she was the only thing with healing capabilities in the party, and hanging out with a healing-desperate character like Seoni. I haven't played Seelah, but I imagine she goes for Cures more than Healing Lights and Aids, leaving her Hospitaler power for when she's lost her cures due to bad recharges (and her total lack of items to never get them back!)
Haha, oops! Rereading Hawk's post I can't believe I didn't recognize how old it was ("waiting" should've been a tip).
But yeah, I don't think we had any confusion with Kyra's power. I bet we would've fallen into the and/or pit trap, though, if we'd played any characters like that.