Regular posting will resume tomorrow. Thank you all for the patience.
Lots of holiday stuff coming up for me in the next two weeks. My posting time will be pretty diminished. I'll get a post in when I can, but please don't hold the game up for me.
sorry for the long absence, for some reason holidays eat up more time than work...
I should be back by January 3rd. Happy New Year!
Yay! And yeah, holidays are murder. Happy NY to you too!
Since it just came up in game, here's something I learned fairly recently about the difference between a Readied Action and Delaying your action.
A Readied action is a Standard action that can Interrupt enemy actions, and doesn't change your initiative. It is Proactive, preparing you for a stated event. If that event doesn't come, you lose the action.
A Delayed action moves your initiative to a later point of your choosing. It cannot interrupt other actions, but can allow you to respond to something an enemy does immediately after it happens. If you delay until the start of a new round, your initiative moves to the top of the order.
Readied changes your initiative.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.
Wait…
Ok, I'm going to have to look into this. If Readying changes your initiative, why the heck would you ever Delay instead of Ready?
Because Readying only lets you do a standard or standard equivalent action. Delaying lets you have your entire turn at a later point.
Example of an instance where you'd need to delay instead of ready:
You are party healer, standing 30 feet back from two of your front-liners, and you're out of channels, and down to cures. The fighters are, let's say, 10 feet away from each other (in other words, standing in such a way that you can't stand adjacent to them both). You are worried that one or the other of them is gonna take a lot of damage on thee enemy's turn, but if you move and ready to heal, you're having to commit to healing one or the other. If you delay, then after they take damage you can move and then heal on whichever one got torn up.
(It's a slightly contrived example and I'm sure I could think of better ones, but that's off the top of my head.)
Readying assumes that you have a general idea of what you're going to do given a specific circumstance. That circumstance might not occur at all, which IIRC, basically wastes your action. On top of that, you can only ready a standard or equivalent action.
Delaying is more of a "wait and see" approach. You don't know what you are going to do, or are in a situation in which you can't act freely. So you delay, and then get all of your actions when your initiative comes up.
Now... this might be more relevant during a real life game. PbPs tend to have players posting their actions in any order, giving the players an idea of what's going to happen before everything resolves.
Dittoing what Mahorfeus said, too, heh. Readied always runs the risk of your readied not triggering, in which case you lose action for the whole round.
That makes sense.
I think I'm going to house rule it in my games, just to make a larger difference between the two.
Beep, boop?
I'm missing Tempest. If there's no answer tomorrow, I'll DMPC and move on.
Sorry for the delay; the site was coming up as down, blank, or under maintenance every time I checked it for the last several days. I haven't been able to post on any of my games. I don't know if everyone was seeing those errors, but the look of them gave off the impression to me that Paizo had a full server crash and had to restore from backups.
Going to up of town for a few days. I don't know what internet will be like there, so please bot me as necessary.
I'm a little confused about the map. Are all those enemies up? Haven't we taken a few of them down?
Yes, they are all up.
You encountered 4 orderlies. You killed 3 of them, whose corpses I already deleted from the map to avoid cluttering. The fourth called for help, and four more came to his side. Hence the five you see now.
Gotcha, thank you. I didn't realize the ones we'd dropped had been replaced. Guess that means my readied action isn't applicable. Wish I'd checked the map before I declared it so I'd have known to move forward first. Oh well.
I just realize I really short-changed my character. Not only did I forget to add my human bonus feat, but I also didn't add my 3rd level Revelation (taking a feat for Ancestral Weapon instead of just using the revelation granted by the class to get it)
So I'm down two feats.
I have absolutely no idea what to do with them.
Any thoughts?
I'm using heart of the streets to ignore difficult terrain caused by moving through allies squares (normally you can't charge if an ally is in the way, but Heart of the Streets lets you move through friendly/neutral squares unimpeded). It's a great trait for Striker-style characters. I'm not one, but it's a favorite of mine and I thought it might come in handy.
The Cover rules are intend to be for ranged weapons, and there's some debate about whether reach weapons incur them, especially when Allies are involved (since I could just say "hey Milo, duck" or something like that). Many people house rule it away, myself included. A reach weapon fighter shouldn't have to invest in archer feats to get Improved Precise Shot just to be able to use a reach weapon effectively. I understand that RAW says use the ranged cover rules, but frankly, the execution of it is very, very silly.
By RAW Reach weapons do other silly things in Pathfinder, such as not being able to threaten on a diagonal at all, unless you are Large size of bigger.
If the GM wants to use the reach weapon cover rules, that's fine. I rolled pretty well and I'm attacking a prone target. I'll suck up the penalty.
Fair enough on the charging thing, I misunderstood what you were using it for. My bad.
Regarding whether or not cover applies for reach, guess we'll see if Airon has a rule for it!
Interestingly enough, this reach weapon issue is coming up in another game I'm in at the exact same time.
I'm interested to see if there will be a difference in the two rulings, and what the GMs reasons might be for their decision.
Ok, as I see it, RAW Heart of the Streets doesn't allow you to do that.
And unfortunately, RAW reach weapons use the cover rules for ranged weapons.
That being said.
Even if we applied the -4 as per cover rules, your critical would still confirm. So that's a non-issue for now.
In the future, I'm fine with either following rules or house-ruling it. dien seems much more rules-savvy than me. I'm going to leave that up for a vote. We should reach a decision quickly, since there might be more crammed close-quarters combat.
The charging through an ally is harder. If you were a primary charger like a barbarian or a fighter I probably wouldn't allow it. But it kind of fits with your character and you probably won't use it every round. I'm fine with your use of the racial trait. Just don't abuse it.
And pick your two feats, man! It's been 8 months! :D
With reach weapons either way is fine with me, since both sides will suffer from the soft cover issue. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. It will make our rear lines harder to hit by enemy reach weapons.
As for Heart of the Streets, thank you. In my opinion, being able to ignore allies in a charge lane is the only thing that would make that trait good. If it doesn't do that, I'm not sure what its intended to do.
As for feats, I really have no idea what to take. Maybe I'll just go with Toughness and Power Attack or Iron Will.
I've never heard of applying cover ruled to a reach weapon; I thought it was for ranged weapons only. Some hand held weapons, like a whip, specifically state they function like a range attack, but I'd always just considered melee weapons in a different category. Is this a specific rule that I've overlooked, or something that is assumed from other rules?
In either case, it would seem silly to me, as that is pretty much exactly what pole arms are designed for; so that a second soldier can attack from the second rank, even though he has an ally right in front of him.
Soft Cover
Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Stealth check.
The language here specifically states that soft cover provides a bonus against ranged attacks. A reach weapon still performs a melee attack, not a ranged attack. So, were this my game, I would rule that by RAW, soft cover does not apply to a reach weapon.
Cover
When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from any corner of your square to the target's square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.
I believe this is the relevant passage, in this case.
... dien seems much more rules-savvy than me.
LOL, that's very kind, but I'm constantly finding myself wrong on the rules, even after three years playing Pathfinder. I just got home from my local PFS and learned I was wrong on something there, ayup.
As for Heart of the Streets, thank you. In my opinion, being able to ignore allies in a charge lane is the only thing that would make that trait good. If it doesn't do that, I'm not sure what its intended to do.
As I understand it, it works similar to the Urban Barbarian's Crowd Control, which states that "....(the barbarian's) movement is not impeded by crowds".
It's pretty straightforward really. Heart of the Streets says:
"Crowds do not count as difficult terrain for them." That's the wording.
Crowds: Urban streets are often full of people going about their daily lives. In most cases, it isn't necessary to put every 1st-level commoner on the map when a fight breaks out on the city's main thoroughfare. Instead, just indicate which squares on the map contain crowds. If crowds see something obviously dangerous, they'll move away at 30 feet per round at initiative count 0. It takes 2 squares of movement to enter a square with crowds.
Meaning crowds are difficult terrain, meaning that that particular trait lets you ignore that aspect of moving through crowds.
If you want to be able to charge through allies, you usually need Dragon Style.
In other words, there is a specific feat that allows you to charge through allies (and spells out very clearly that that's what it lets you do). Neither the trait Heart of the Streets, nor an Urb-Barb's Crowd Control, let you do that, because their wording has to do with crowds, which are a terrain hazard of the game, as opposed to solitary allies and foes, which are not.
None of this is meant to be a contradiction of Airon, I'm fine with his house rule because it's a pretty rare thing to come up, honestly, especially for a caster, but that is what the rules are talking about when they say letting you move through crowds.
Well that's just lame.
I've used this trait in 2 other games. Neither GM thought it couldn't be used to move through allies spaces unimpeded.
If Airon wants to use that ruling, I'm fine with that. I'd just like to change the trait out for something that isn't useless.
I believe this is the relevant passage, in this case.Cover
When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from any corner of your square to the target's square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.
It would be overlooking, then. As I said before though, I agree it is a silly rule, and doesn't make much sense. I'd probably house rule it out, if given the option.
I honestly think it makes perfect sense, but it's not such a huge deal.
And speaking of traits, I honestly have no idea why I forgot to take Magical Knack for this build. Oh well.
On an unrelated note, would anybody object to the gigantic orderly being removed from the map?
Okay, may be slow for a bit. Laptop adapter abruptly gave up the ghost and I'm on my last two hours of battery power at the moment. Hopefully I can get this fixed soon. GMPC as needed.
Oh, yeah. That was something I noticed before. 4 casters and no one with comprehend languages. Peachy. The book is written in Aklo, which only Xander knows. And he doesn't want to read the book. Fantastic.
We have 3 options here:
- don't read the book
- convince Xander
- I let you find a scroll of comprehend languages with a huge neon sign saying CONVENIENT PLOT DEVICE HERE.
FWIW, I have linguistics.
Well, we could always trot down and bang on the door of some Ye Olde Magick Shoppe until they cough up a scroll.
At any rate, Xander seems to be rightfully concerned that just looking at the book is enough to make you go mad, regardless of whether you know what you're looking at. Maybe he'd be willing to read it if a guinea pig takes a peek first?
From a pure IC standpoint, it makes sense to be worried about reading the book, and yet the book has more or less had a post-it on it saying "READ ME" since we first got it.
I'll read it, especially when it's clear that no one else can understand it.
I'm just trying to role-play the situation smartly. If there's a will save in that thing, I was hoping to pass it off to Varta's +8 rather than my own +4
I'll be away until Monday. Big finale to the Asylum part coming then.
At this point, Varta hasn't posted in 2 weeks...
I'd love to finish this game if we're close to the ending, but this first round of combat has gone over a week now, I think. Can we either agree to get all of us trying to post regularly for the finish, or should we just call it quits? Because.... yeah.
And if we're not close to the ending, then, IDK, maybe we should call it anyway, because this is easily the slowest of all my currently active games.
I'm used to slow games myself, so I suppose I don't feel as strongly about it. I do think we might have lost Varta, though.
I like games to move at a steady pace at least, but I don't need them to be rushing along too fast. Guess I'm saying that if the game continues, i'll still be here.
We are... kind of close to the end. It really depends on how it goes here at the Asylum. I started cutting plot-irrelevant encounters a little too late I'm afraid. Lesson learned for future PbPs.
The slow pace is a bit frustrating to me as a GM, mostly because it is a clear indicator that I'm not able to hold your attention and for that I apologize. That being said, we had a few sprints here and there, so if you all want to keep playing, I think we can make it to the end in a reasonable time.
Ok, perhaps not reasonable. In 2 days, it will be 1 full year of life for this thread...
I don't need a game to hurtle along at a breakneck pace, but there's a difference between 'slow' and 'glacial'. As I said, round 1 of this fight has gone for a week (and technically isn't done, as we're waiting on Varta, who may or may not still even be in the game). I'm nauseated now for three rounds. I can only move, and since I can't attack, I don't even threaten to set up flanks, meaning I am essentially useless for the next three rounds.
At our current rate of posting? That's going to be an RL month before I get to do anything other than move my character.
Frankly, that's sort of ridiculous to me.
Most of my games set a preferred baseline of a post a day, which is fairly reasonable to me. Obviously, circumstances mean you don't always meet that, especially if your character is not doing something that requires or benefits from a post. And I'm not even saying I've always managed to tag at a post-per-day, because I frequently have not, but I do try not to push it past 2-3 days, which to me, is a 'slow' game.
But not every 6-7 days. Or every 2 weeks. Especially when we're in the middle of an active combat.
PBPs play slow. Of course they do. But a huge part of that depends on the players and the rate they post at. If one person starts playing slow, another person likewise starts feeling it's not really as necessary to tag urgently, because, hey, we're still waiting on x, so what difference does it make, etc etc....
...and you wind up with a game that has gone for one year, now, as the GM says. I have been in Carrion Hill longer than any of my other games, at this point.
I'm sorry, this all sounds really harsh and critical. I don't mean it to be. It's just that it's super frustrating to see my other games updating with new posts every day, and to constantly see this one with a blank after its name day-after-day.
I like the story, I like our characters, I'd like to see how it ends, but at this point I've halfway forgotten what the heck it is we're even doing because we started investigating things a year ago. And my interest in the game is too low to bother re-reading through a year of gameplay to refresh myself.
Gm, I'm really enjoying the game regardless of the pace. Thanks for all your efforts.
I'd definitely like to keep going. The best way of pushing things forward would be for you to be less reluctant to take control of our characters when need be. If someone hasn't posted, bot them. Don't be afraid to make checks and saves for us. It seems counter to most of the unwritten rules of gaming, but its definitely necessary in PbP. None of us will mind. Its all the same dice roller.
What can we do to help from our end?
Due to family business as well as work, I have to withdraw from the game. I am very sorry and wish all of you the best of luck. I enjoyed playing with you. Again, my apologies.
Sorry to see you go, Varta. Best of luck with your business!
Sad face. Hope things get easier for you. If they do, come back. We'll try to keep Varta alive.
As a heads-up, I'm going to be at Kubla Con from the 23rd through the 26th, and I doubt I'll have much time to tag while there. This is sort of a good time for it, though, as Milo is pukin'. :P But if a non-nauseated turn comes up during that time and I haven't tagged, please feel free to GMPC him, Airon.
Likewise, I'll be away for a bit.
Sorry I missed that last post. I've been going full throttle at work and at home in order to get ready for a trip. I'm sure some of you can relate; I work in the sort of place where I have no coverage for my particular role, so I have to do as much work in advance as I can to get ready for my absence (and then probably do twice as much in order to catch up after I get back, as well).
I am leaving for Iceland today, and then on to Denmark later in the week. I have wifi everywhere I am going, but I have no idea what the reception will like, or how much time I will have. I will try to post as much as I can, whenever I get the chance. I'm back in Canada (home) on May 30th, and back to work June 2nd, but of course I'm not sure how busy I'll be then either.
As a result, feel free to bot me as much as needed.