When i use both of those feats do i get the extra damage of deadly aim on both arrows or not?
When i use both of those feats do i get the extra damage of deadly aim on both arrows or not?
Yes, you do.
The only damage that aren't applied to both arrows is precision damage and crit damage.
and bonus dices from fire, frost and the like.
and bonus dices from fire, frost and the like.
Why not? I think it makes more sense for both frost arrwos to do frost damage than for them to both do deadly aim damage, since the attack only takes one penalty why would it get two damage boosts from it.
and bonus dices from fire, frost and the like.
I don't see anywhere in the text that would preclude bonus damage via weapon enchantments from applying to each individual arrow. Those damage dice aren't multiplied on a critical hit, but that's a different situation altogether.
Manyshot says:
"Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow,
your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both
arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak
attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack.
Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high
Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage
bonuses, such as a ranger’s favored enemy bonus. Damage
reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow."
So for frost, flaming etc. weapons there isn't anything to think the damage isn't precision based, now the damage from deadly aim is untyped right?
Manyshot says:
"Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow,
your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both
arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak
attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack.
Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high
Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage
bonuses, such as a ranger’s favored enemy bonus. Damage
reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow."So for frost, flaming etc. weapons there isn't anything to think the damage isn't precision based, now the damage from deadly aim is untyped right?
The Deadly Aim damage should apply to both arrows. I'm curious though as to where you see that the weapon enhancement damage is precision-based damage? I don't see that anywhere within the rules. I know it specifically states that such bonus damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, and that it is lumped into the same sentence as the ruling precluding precision damage from being multiplied on a critical as well, but nowhere at all do I see where damage from weapon qualities is precision-based damage.
What enhancement damage are you talking about? (i don't understand)
All i see is that:
""Additional Damage Dice: Some magic weapons deal
additional
dice of damage. Unlike other modifiers to damage,
additional dice of damage are not multiplied when the attacker
scores a critical hit.""
But i think that the above rule means abilities like holy and such.
Sneak attack damage are extra dice. Sneak attack is precision damage.
Frosting/flaming/aciding etc are extra dice---> its precision damage.
That doesn't follow. It assumes that there's only one kind of damage that uses extra dice. It's espeically Egregious when you consider that a composite longbow can do damage from half a mile away while sneak attack is limited to 60 feet.
and bonus dices from fire, frost and the like.Uhm guys.... He wasn't saying that these bonus's don't apply.
He was throwing them in there to include them as bonus's that 'do' apply.
Oh, I think you're right. If you don't read the post in between, which is probably the correct way, then it does read like that doesn't it? I still think it's odd that deadly shot applies to both. It clearly does, I'm not arguing that, I just think it's weird.
When i use both of those feats do i get the extra damage of deadly aim on both arrows or not?My DM has stated that Deadly Aim "sounds like precision, and is therefor precision damage". Is there any official rule I can use which defines precision damage so I can have my deadly aim damage doubled on this?
Deadly Aim is Power Attack for ranged weapons. It does not say it is precision damage, therefore it isn't. It applies to both arrows of multishot, multiplies on a crit, etc.
When i use both of those feats do i get the extra damage of deadly aim on both arrows or not?My DM has stated that Deadly Aim "sounds like precision, and is therefor precision damage". Is there any official rule I can use which defines precision damage so I can have my deadly aim damage doubled on this?
Precision damage does not have an official definition however it is always called out as such or it has a blurb that says it can not affect things that can be critted. He can rule however he wants, but he is incorrect. I wonder if he rules Vital Strike as precision also.
Example
Precise Strike (Ex): A duelist gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing weapon, adding her duelist level to her damage roll.
When making a precise strike, a duelist cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield. A duelist's precise strike only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.
PS:I am looking for an official answer.
edit:It is more like power attack for ranged weapons. If he compares it to power attack he can see the similarities.
When i use both of those feats do i get the extra damage of deadly aim on both arrows or not?My DM has stated that Deadly Aim "sounds like precision, and is therefor precision damage". Is there any official rule I can use which defines precision damage so I can have my deadly aim damage doubled on this?Precision damage does not have an official definition however it is always called out as such or it has a blurb that says it can not affect things that can be critted. He can rule however he wants, but he is incorrect. I wonder if he rules Vital Strike as precision also.
Example
** spoiler omitted **PS:I am looking for an official answer.
edit:It is more like power attack for ranged weapons. If he compares it to power attack he can see the similarities.
It should also be noted that just like power attack, deadly aim says, "The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage."
Sneak attack damage are extra dice. Sneak attack is precision damage.
Frosting/flaming/aciding etc are extra dice---> its precision damage.
That doesn't follow. It assumes that there's only one kind of damage that uses extra dice. It's espeically Egregious when you consider that a composite longbow can do damage from half a mile away while sneak attack is limited to 60 feet.
Yes you are right.
So what things don't work for both arrows of manyshot? Sneak attack and critical?
Sneak attack damage are extra dice. Sneak attack is precision damage.
Frosting/flaming/aciding etc are extra dice---> its precision damage.
That doesn't follow. It assumes that there's only one kind of damage that uses extra dice. It's espeically Egregious when you consider that a composite longbow can do damage from half a mile away while sneak attack is limited to 60 feet.
Yes you are right.
So what things don't work for both arrows of manyshot? Sneak attack and critical?
Sneak attack and crits are only applied to one arrow.
Developer
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Precision damage does not have an official definition however it is always called out as such or it has a blurb that says it can not affect things that can be critted. He can rule however he wants, but he is incorrect. I wonder if he rules Vital Strike as precision also.
You are right. Currently the only forms of precision damage are those called out as such. Really the Duelist should be, given the name, but even it is not. Currently, all I can think of are sneak attack and the Precise Strike feat that call it out. I'm might be missing something, but the point is that the vast majority of extra damage is not precision.
A definition would be great, but currently there isn't one, so if it isn't called out, it's not precision.
I'm gonna resurrect this topic, because I need a hand in calculating my critical damage correctly.
10 lvl char (8 lvl Bard Archeologist / 2 lvl Fighter)
Dmg:
+3 from STR
+2 from Luck
+6 from Deadly Aim
+2 from Arcane Strike
+2 from Weapon Enhancement
+1 from Point Blank Shot
So if I'm reading Manyshot correctly, on a critical hit with a Comp.Longbow +2, damage is:
4d8 (3d8 from the critical of the first arrow, plus 1d8 from the 2nd arrow)
+61 (45 from the critical of the first arrow, plus 15 dmg from the 2nd arrow + 1 from precision dmg (Point-Blank Shot))
Is my interpretation wrong? Please help.
Point-blank shot isn't labeled as precision damage, so it gets multiplied on a critical hit and applies to both arrows. Good luck!
Thanks for the help ^_^