Hrimnagel Avaldamon |
I thought the stone shape was the volume of the stone. To enclose the large swarm would be 10x10x6 sides so 600 square feet. So with 15 cubic feet of stone volume, the thickness of the stone enclosure would be 15/600x12 so 0.3 inches thick. That's what I was thinking.
If he makes it a stone sphere 10 feet in diameter, he could make it 0.577 inches thick, which seems structurally sturdier than the box.
Cheers
Argor Constantine |
Lurking, and in pain, as I wait for my doctor's appointment.
Nyugusk Newblossom |
Nyug has a Light Load of 306 lbs (or maybe 459 lbs now that he has six legs so likely qualifies as a quadraped) and--now that he has a 50' speed--it might be good for him to carry one or more allies.
Don't know how much Thrassk weighs but Hrim is 40lbs and Cladissa is 115lbs (both before gear) so he could likely carry them--and if he can, he can outrun this thing (assuming non-difficult terrain).
Anyone want a ride?
Jelani, does the 459 lbs load seem legit?
DM Jelani |
I thought the stone shape was the volume of the stone. To enclose the large swarm would be 10x10x6 sides so 600 square feet. So with 15 cubic feet of stone volume, the thickness of the stone enclosure would be 15/600x12 so 0.3 inches thick. That's what I was thinking.
If he makes it a stone sphere 10 feet in diameter, he could make it 0.577 inches thick, which seems structurally sturdier than the box.
Cheers
I don’t know the math to determine the volume of a sphere in cubic feet, but assuming you’re correct, what would your complete plan be? It’s not just going to stay still while you trap it.
DM Jelani |
Nyug has a Light Load of 306 lbs (or maybe 459 lbs now that he has six legs so likely qualifies as a quadraped) and--now that he has a 50' speed--it might be good for him to carry one or more allies.
Don't know how much Thrassk weighs but Hrim is 40lbs and Cladissa is 115lbs (both before gear) so he could likely carry them--and if he can, he can outrun this thing (assuming non-difficult terrain).
Anyone want a ride?
Jelani, does the 459 lbs load seem legit?
Sure.
Hrimnagel Avaldamon |
Well, the plan would be to move adjacent to the swarm. Use a standard action to activate the SLA Stone Shape and enclose the swarm. I don't think swarms get an AOO for casting adjacent, because they don't threaten, ie. 0 ft reach.
To get that into this round 3, Hrim could drop his sling as a free action.
This all assumes that the volume of the spell is the stone and not the whole object. If the whole object, he could only create a stone sphere a little bit more than 3 feet in diameter solid or hollow.
What do you say?
cheers
EDIT If you agree volume of stone instead of whole object, 0.577 inches of Stone would be almost sturdy. Raw lists stone with Hardness 8 and 15 HP per 1 inch thick, so 8 HP
Nyugusk Newblossom |
Hrim's math works. He's talking about making a balloon, not a solid ball. If he were going for a solid ball, the formula is V=4/3*πr^3 which as Hrim says means he could create a solid ball ~3' diameter.
For the balloon, the way to calculate it is to start with the surface of the sphere, for which the formula is A=4πr^2. if r=5' then A= 314'. That clearly wouldn't work if it were to be a 1' thick sphere. But Hrim asks, how thin would it need to be to have a volume of 15cubic feet?
That's 15'/314'=0.0478' thick, or converted to inches = 0.57" thick.
My first question is how fast it can get out of it. It does 3d6 damage / round at the end of its move. As Hrim points out, the balloon would have Hardness 8 & HP 8. It seems like that'd likely buy us 2-4 rounds...assuming Hrim succeeds in capturing it.
I don't know if it should get a reflex save to avoid being trapped. Stoneshape doesn't mention one but it also doesn't discuss whether it can be used to capture folks. Wall of Stone on the other hand does consider using it to trap, and says "It is possible, but difficult, to trap mobile opponents within or under a wall of stone, provided the wall is shaped so it can hold the creatures. Creatures can avoid entrapment with successful Reflex saves"
I think it's a super creative idea while we're in a tough jam...but I suspect if Stoneshape has the ability to trap foes then those foes should get a reflex save just like Wall of Stone grants.
CladissaVelorryan |
It depends. If a hellwasp swarm is considered an appropriate first encounter for Tier 8-9, then I think we're out of our league here. We're more powerful than a typical 5th-level party, so we'd probably have an easy time if we switched back to Tier 5-6, unless you want to beef up some of the encounters. But if we're set at Tier 8-9, then no, I don't want to risk losing a character each encounter. We might survive one or two, but we're risking a party wipe if we press on.
If we lose a party member to the swarm, I don't think Cladissa would want to continue (assuming she survives), regardless of tier. If Hrim's trick works, and you let us, I vote for dropping it back to Tier 5-6, but wouldn't mind if you beefed up an encounter or two to compensate.
Hrimnagel Avaldamon |
Regardless of Jelani allowing Hrim to create the stone balloon, Hrim can't affect the swarm with the ape and Thrask occupying the same space.
Oh well. "Feet, ready to do your duty and run?"
As for the plan, circle around to try to pick up other tracks leading away from the camp.
If we all survive, I'd give Tier 8-9, so more time.
DM Jelani |
Swarms are not typical, and I recall you guys running from a swarm once before I think. They just happen to be a weak point of this party. I need to look at the rest of the encounters and then I can advise on their difficulty.
Edit:You guys never ran from a swarm...false memory. Either way, tier 5-6 will be a cakewalk.
Argor Constantine |
I think we just hit something that we had no chance of dealing with unfortunately. But I am fine trying to continue at the higher tier as it don't want to just waltz throuh everything.
Nyugusk Newblossom |
The other thing I recall running from was the draining incorporal undead thingies. I think a weakness of our party is stuff one can't damage with weapons (or pincers).
In terms of Tier, I don't really know them though I assume they are meant to match to level? If Tier 5-6 is too easy for us lets not do it.
Jelani if you read Tier 8-9 and think it's reasonable for us, I'll keep going with it. If you say you think it's too much for us...is it worth considering switching (possibly after this scenario) to ones where we could do something in between? I assume there must be scenarios out there for Tier 6-7 or 7-8?
DM Jelani |
Some scenarios have those tiers, but not all. I'm mixing and matching stuff from all six seasons of PFS and the way they did things has been different at different times. I arranged them so that the ones with higher tiers are all in the end of our campaign arc.
In tier 5-6 there would have been two locust swarms here instead of a hellwasp swarm. Which, if alchemist fire and acid was the only way you have to deal with swarms, would have been a potentially tough fight too.
I also just realized that this scenario was published under D&D 3.5 rules back in the early days of PFS, for what that's worth.
Looking at the other encounters, I'm confident you can handle them all at tier 8-9. A couple might be challenging, but nothing else is immune to weapon damage. Tier 5-6 would be a complete joke...1-2 hit kills on everything with you guys taking little to no damage.
DM Jelani |
Does argor have exact control of the ape to get it to backup. If yes, I'll put a post offering the balloon option to the group.
Is there a way to use a hero point to add DC to the stone shape reflex?
Cheers
Argor cannot directly command the ape. However, this swarm is intelligent and it knows the ape is summoned, so why would it waste its time?
There's no way to use a hero point to increase a spell DC. I'd rather not open that can of worms.
Argor Constantine |
Do the hellwasps have spellcraft? How could they know it was summoned, aside from it's strange appearance among them?
Unless these things are super smart, in which case, Argor may try to befriend them as he has been looking for some intelligent conversationalists... :-P
DM Jelani |
Uhh...because they heard chanting and then it popped out of nowhere? What else would it be? Even if they didn't find that suspicious, why would they go for an animal that can't harm them, when they can feed on the flesh of intelligent beings? Causing pain to sentients is so much more satisfying.
Dismiss it now that there's a plan?
Argor Constantine |
Well, I mean I've done summoned it, no sense in wasting the summon...
CladissaVelorryan |
Okay, Hrim and I are moving stealthily back to wherever we would meet up. Probably our last campsite.
I'm unsure about Jelani's ruling. Did Nyug grab Thrassk before he went into the swarm? Or was Nyug unable to save him?
I've got a handy antidote kit, which I'd be happy to use if Thrassk got stung.
Argor Constantine |
Lurking
Argor Constantine |
Lurking on roll20 again this morning.
Nyugusk Newblossom |
I remember "knowing" that if a creature only has secondary attacks then those attacks count as primary attacks.
Now I can't find a source for it and am starting to suspect I'm mistaken. This has practical implications because Nyug has only pincers right now.
I looked at Giant Crabs, saw they don't suffer a -5 to hit, thought at first that supported my remembered rule...and then noticed that whoever created them gave them claws instead of pincers. I suppose I'll just go that route for Nyug if I'm wrong.
Anyone recall any such rule?
DM Jelani |
The rule is I believe, if you only have one natural weapon it is treated as primary and you get 1.5x str bonus to damage. Otherwise they are treated as what they are. For eidolon pincers they are secondary, which I hadn't noticed before either. I always thought they were claws reflavored as pincers for some reason. The extra +2 to grab is the tradeoff for the -5 to hit and 1/2 str bonus to damage. If you want to make them claws that look like pincers I'm cool with that.
Nyugusk Newblossom |
OK yeah, I'll make them claws mechanically (and handwave my Weapon Focus as being for claws). Minor changes to his crunch TBD before he wakes from the poison.
Argor Constantine |
Nice response. Lol
Lurkin.
Argor Constantine |
Lurkin' the niiiight away.
Argor Constantine |
Ya sure, go play Pillars of Eternity :-P
Argor Constantine |
Lurkin' all night long.