A Gossamer World (Inactive)

Game Master Rednal

Dalaston
Temple of Abadar
Tactical Map


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For chatting about things! =D


Battle Imp [11 CR] Brawler 2 | Harbinger 13, Champion 1 | HP: 315/315 | AC 40 / T 21 / FF 31 (+4 v AoO fr move, +2 if moved 10’) DR10/cold iron, immune: fire | F 21, R 23 (+2 if moved 10’ ), W 22 | CMB +21 CMD 31 | Init +10, Per: +30

Hey Rednal, I'd suggested GM-MZ review Oneidros' power level to see if he thought it could use toning down. He wasn't concerned but with a new DM I'd like to extend the same invitation:

My goal is to play an interesting character, and one that makes the game more interesting for all involved. If there's anything about Oneidros that you think makes the game harder or less interesting in any way, I'd love to work with you to change it. (I've been accepted into high-level-gestalt-monster-level nuttiness games before but none have actually ever left the ground so I really have no idea how to gage power level...and I'm new to PoW so that's an additional variable.)

Not sure where the post is now (or if it was in a PM) but when I raised the Q with GM-MZ I suggested a couple ways to do it:
- arbitrarily reducing his point buy (or capping some stats, notably INT which counts as his STR too)
- arbitrarily cutting some of his racial HD (which will lower many things including HP, skills, BAB)
- ...or other things you'd suggest

Cheers!


@Oneidros: I think INT could use some reducing, yes. XD Around 30 max for any stat would probably be more appropriate (and that goes for everyone). I'd also like to switch your at-will SLA's into 3/day - that kind of freedom is typically intended for enemies, not players.

@Everyone: Please edit your quick-reference bars into this exact format:

Class 1 / Class 2 / Tier 1 | HP: ???/??? | AC: ?? / T: ?? / FF: ?? / DR/SR: ?? (If Any) | Fort: +??, Ref: +??, Will: +?? | M. Touch: +??, R. Touch: +?? | CMB: +??, CMD: ?? | Init: +??, Perception: +??


Rednal, sounds good to me. Shall I use some/all of those INT points elsewhere? Or just cut INT to 30 and leave it at that?

EDIT: I'll get rid of my +4 INT headband to start. After that, if I were to redistribute the remaining 9 pts, I'd probably go
from: Str 12, Dex 26, Con 28, Int 43, Wis 24, Cha 20
to: Str 13, Dex 30, Con 28, Int 30, Wis 28, Cha 20 (which is still *very* nutty, just due to the way character creation worked here for monstrous characters)


I would say just knock it down to 30 and leave it at that, without redistributing.

'Cuz, uh, honestly, monstrous characters probably shouldn't have much of a point buy - they ALREADY have points in their ability scores, sometimes far more than what a character would normally get, and don't really need extras (unless they're a low-HD race, in which case it might be appropriate).


stats:
HP: 192/200 | AC: 36 (31) / T: 26 / FF: 36 / DR/SR: see stats | Fort: +14*, Ref: +17*, Will: +21* | M. Touch: +22*, R. Touch: +15* | CMB: +16*, CMD: 38* | Init: +4*, Perception: +42**(take 10)
Witchwyrd 6 / Savant +0 / Cryptic 7 // Psion 5 / Force +1 / Metamorph 7 /// Mythic Genius 1

Will employ changes later, at work now. A looooot of things to reconfigure...


Battle Imp [11 CR] Brawler 2 | Harbinger 13, Champion 1 | HP: 315/315 | AC 40 / T 21 / FF 31 (+4 v AoO fr move, +2 if moved 10’) DR10/cold iron, immune: fire | F 21, R 23 (+2 if moved 10’ ), W 22 | CMB +21 CMD 31 | Init +10, Per: +30

Sounds good to me! I've taken a first pass at making Oneidros slightly less ridiculous. I'll have time to update stat line and make first post later today (I hope)!

...and don't hesitate to suggest add'l nerfs later if warranted. I want a fun game, not (just) a chance to indulge my inner 8 year old. ^^

EDIT: did stat line...but wasn't sure about "M. Touch: +??, R. Touch: +??". Is that bonus to hit for melee and ranged touch attacks? If so, is that something you want for everyone?


Ongoing effects:
Clinically insane. Mind twisted and bent, not broken(at least not literally), x/y Mythic Power
Sorcerer(Dreamspun)20 /Oracle(Dark Tapestry)20 / Archmage/Hierophant 10 | Deity of Shinyness and Stuff

will do ASAP. Thing is, that will be a more extensive process ;) Cha affects pretty much everything from saves over DC's, bonus spells etc.

Also, no monstrous race so I'll redistribute. Which will, considering Dex and Cha were the focus and Con maxed in initial distribution, likely give some new Skill Points to put into stuff like Dance or Knowledge(Colors), and some money from the Items not useful now.

All in all, totally understandable but I'll have to go over pretty much every Aspect again in order, will try to find that time tomorrow!


Quote:
CHA affects pretty much everything

And that's why I'm asking you to tone it down a little bit. XD Fortunately, we're in no great rush.


Ongoing effects:
Clinically insane. Mind twisted and bent, not broken(at least not literally), x/y Mythic Power
Sorcerer(Dreamspun)20 /Oracle(Dark Tapestry)20 / Archmage/Hierophant 10 | Deity of Shinyness and Stuff
GM Rednal wrote:
Quote:
CHA affects pretty much everything
And that's why I'm asking you to tone it down a little bit. XD Fortunately, we're in no great rush.

haha, ya, as said, full acknowledgement here. Just saying it'll be an extensive process restructuring while finding useful alternatives to go for.(e.g. I am completely opposed to further upping wisdom or gaining ranks in perception or sense motive ^_^ )

but the tagline should be done and already incorporate a max +10 bonus for dex and cha.

On a side note, I will switch her Sorcerer Line out to Dreamspun and get Umbral via Heritage. Not really affecting anything, just saying I'm taking the necessary restructuring as option to change some things that irked me around, too. -


stats:
HP: 192/200 | AC: 36 (31) / T: 26 / FF: 36 / DR/SR: see stats | Fort: +14*, Ref: +17*, Will: +21* | M. Touch: +22*, R. Touch: +15* | CMB: +16*, CMD: 38* | Init: +4*, Perception: +42**(take 10)
Witchwyrd 6 / Savant +0 / Cryptic 7 // Psion 5 / Force +1 / Metamorph 7 /// Mythic Genius 1

editing Mineire's quick reference bar with the stats now, a more in-depth edit will likely have to wait until this weekend.

easy enough to play it on the fly, however, since i can just subtract 4 from all INT-related things.

Oneidros wrote:


EDIT: did stat line...but wasn't sure about "M. Touch: +??, R. Touch: +??". Is that bonus to hit for melee and ranged touch attacks? If so, is that something you want for everyone?

i also have this question


It's for those of you who have any touch abilities. If you don't, feel free to leave it out.


Yin, Daughter of Nug wrote:

will do ASAP. Thing is, that will be a more extensive process ;) Cha affects pretty much everything from saves over DC's, bonus spells etc.

Also, no monstrous race so I'll redistribute.

Rednal should be the judge of it, but the Advanced template gives ya +24 pt and the Nightmare one gives you +16 for a total of +40 pts above the norm. That sounds monstrous to me! ;-)

In seriousness though, I'm not sure what balance even means in a game of this level, and comparing high level full casters to high level melee monster nuttiness. I'm down with whatever Rednal wants to rule and am perfectly fine with tailor-made nerfs for individual characters or abilities, if they are for the good of the story.


I probably should review the rest of your profiles sometime. Quite honestly, though, since it's just one module, I'm honestly not too worried about it. Basically, I want you all to feel like you're playing strong characters... but not be so absurd you'll one-shot the final boss of the module or anything. Not that you're likely to be able to do that anyway, considering my plans. XD Anyway, if you THINK you're too powerful in any area, you probably are, so just drop it down to whatever you personally feel is appropriate - you're on the honor system for that, and I'll probably post an advancement tomorrow. Let's keep this thing moving.

(As people who've played with me before are aware, my usual response to drastically increased PC power is just to make the enemies tougher as well. I DO plan to challenge you somewhat, and nobody can out min-max the GM. =D)


No stats above 30 here.

Regardless I'm open to feedback if anyone thinks my character is too strong in any area.


I see no particular problems, Barrett - update your stat bar as described above.


Just finished.


fluid fey-touched Dreamlord

gyrfalcon:
point being? both of the templates take up both sides of the gestalt, and my classes are both full casters on the spells-known-paths(meaning they lack behind preparing ones already).
+even after the flat cut we stand at +80 vs +86 total points respectively, and thats BEFORE I will have to reduce.(meaning if I simply drop one item and redistribute our stat totals will be equal).

And battle imp is what? 57 points above the norm? plus int=>strenght and using a class that adds int+str for attack/damage, 18d6 racial HD and +8 natural armor?
On a side note, I doubt in Gestalt you can get more than 1 HD worth of skill points per Gestalt Level? You have 18 levels worth of skill points for your battle imp compacted into 11 levels...as I remember, you use either the other side of the gestalt OR what one racial HD would provide for that level. I may be wrong on that one, though, could have been a houserule. Been a while since I last played Monstrous Gestalt.

Also, if I had wanted to break things, I would have choosen a nymph as race in the first place and go druid on her side of gestalt for the divine part. Still full caster and unearthly grace to go with the crazy +47 stat boni.

Or, even without that, could have easily choosen a Mystery that allows Cha to be used for AC+Reflex instead of Dex, and then not care about Dex, or, for extra fun, go with force creature and get an extra deflection modifier worth cha mod on top. Extra crazy?
A Diamond Nymph Oracle with +Cha as Dex Mod, Natural Armor, and Deflection Modifier for her AC. Should be around 60+AC total.

Yin was specifically built to survive. That is her thing. Survive, resist, hide, whatever, without going too crazy. So that she can be there to breath-of-life you when one of you guys gets unlucky. She survives, she buffs, she debuffs. The people that get to stand in the spotlight? Deal the killing blow? Talk with the mayor? Thats you guys. She has no perception(short attention span), no diplomacy(alien mind), no sense motive(no empathy), only a great bluff(because she beliefs it herself).
Imho it's not just what stats you have, it's also what you aim to create with them(mechanicswise, fluffwise e.g. I really like Oneidros)

If thats wanted I can gladly get rid of the advanced template and instead add a caster level on each side. Matter of fact thats one of the considerations I currently weigh against each other, and a solution I currently favor because it would put Yin's Strenght and Wisdom where they should be.

The nightmare one, on the other hand is pretty much there for fluff reasons but I can gladly get rid of any offending aspects there, too. Matter of fact, I had corresponded with other GM, saying I never was going to use some of the abilities it offers.
(Fear Aura? Frightful Presence? Dream Slave? Not fitting...)


Quote:
Anyway, if you THINK you're too powerful in any area, you probably are, so just drop it down to whatever you personally feel is appropriate.

That's the guiding principle here. XD Change or don't change based on what you think is most sensible - I don't plan to nitpick either way.


fluid fey-touched Dreamlord
GM Rednal wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, if you THINK you're too powerful in any area, you probably are, so just drop it down to whatever you personally feel is appropriate.
That's the guiding principle here. XD Change or don't change based on what you think is most sensible - I don't plan to nitpick either way.

Aye, I read. I had just already started typing all that before you had posted that. I will reduce her stats, already decided that, I just don't know yet how I'll do it.

Basically rebuilding her in 2 or 3 different ways right now. Can't promise I'll be done until tomorrow but I feel ready regardless.

The core strenghts/weaknesses won't be affected(in terms of focus) and the tagline already has new AC/Saves, anything else can be changed on-the-fly, too.


Female Changeling Intrigue Oracle 3 (covetous curse)

I don't think anything about Sashin is inherently overpowered.

Besides those two third party feats that make my full dragon HD count as sorcerer levels for bloodline/spells.

And her Str is 30, but she's a dragon.
So.


30 is an acceptable stat for characters at this point in the game. ^^ Nothing to worry about there.


M Humanborn

from my experience in the other Rednal game i am in, i am not worried about 1-shotting any bosses


*Snickers*

In fairness, that was at much lower level - though the thing with the undead priest was mostly just bad luck, and he wasn't meant to be nearly that hard. XD But it's absolutely true that I want you to feel a sense of accomplishment when you beat the big bads, and that usually involves enemies that can press you.


M Humanborn
GM Rednal wrote:
... and that usually involves enemies that can press you.

or blind you

haha! i will say, that blindness is rougher than usual in a one-person game.


It is! MOST ailments are nastier than usual when you don't have allies to cover for you or quick ways of healing yourself - that's a major reason why you got a big boost to saves. XD At the very least, they should have a lower-than-usual incidence of occurring as a way of compensating for the nastiness.


Male Human Harbinger 1/Stalker 1(gestalt)

Rednal pair of questions:

Are we still allowed to add 3 templates to our companion creatures? Thinking of taking the Spirit Imp Binder secret which gets me a familiar. Also, would the template be applicable to my Eidolon? I would say no, but wanted to ask.

Second question,

I'm taking the Inveigler, which is a +1 to CR template, so I loose one class level, right?


One template for companions would probably be more appropriate, to make them a little more survivable (up to CR +2). For your own template, yeah, just swap out an equal number of class levels.


Hey Yin, sounds like my post came across as critical. I apologize, and should remember that tone is hard to guess in text. I meant to be wondering aloud in a friendly way (as someone who has never played at anything like this nutty powerlevel...at least not since my old AD&D days). I really do trust you & DM Rednal to figure out the right power levels for the game (whatever that means in this context) and don't have any strongly held opinions on the matter so far.


fluid fey-touched Dreamlord

aye, sorry, gyrfalcon. It takes two to Tango. It was quite late in the night for me when I wrote that, something unrelated got me in a ill mood earlier, and I took it the wrong way.

I apologize for the lashing out. The gist of it, though, was to point out the difference I felt most important. Let me try in a calm way now:
In your build, you have the ability to use one stat(Int) as two Stats(Str+Int). Str has little other significance(the skills at this level being irrelevant), while Int gives Skill points too, so focusing on this and dumping the other is a very real efficiency boost.

Yin, on the other hand, specifically avoided ways to use Cha instead of her Dex, and is dependent on both. Dex influences Skills and AC she uses, Cha influences her abilities but only few skills she uses, and to get those skills, some intelligence is also needed since she has few skill points per level base.
Thats why I felt justified having higher total stats than you(only slightly, and only AFTER you had to reduce), having taken care to be MAD by design, while you basically made Oneidros pretty much SAD.
So when you pointed that out, wondering in a friendly way, it kind of seemed to me to not be very friendly. Again, apologies and I hope I managed to clear up what I was trying to bring across, in a more calm matter.


Thanks Mordred, no worries.


Male Human Harbinger 1/Stalker 1(gestalt)

I was under the impression we all knew each other prior to the start of this adventure, and have posted thusly. If that's not the case, it would be good to know.

Also, do we actually have access to our Lord/Lady Gossamer powers? If so, several of us never got told what powers and abilities we have.


That was info your previous GM should've been providing, yeah? XD

Mmm... I don't have whatever stuff they were basing all of that on, so it's best to probably not have any of the greater powers. Anything common to all of you (like access to the Stair) would still be around, though. We can say your Mythic power serves as the rest of your Gossamer powers.


Female Changeling Intrigue Oracle 3 (covetous curse)

Sounds good to me.

I don't think any of us need the power boost.

Agreed?


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stats:
HP: 192/200 | AC: 36 (31) / T: 26 / FF: 36 / DR/SR: see stats | Fort: +14*, Ref: +17*, Will: +21* | M. Touch: +22*, R. Touch: +15* | CMB: +16*, CMD: 38* | Init: +4*, Perception: +42**(take 10)
Witchwyrd 6 / Savant +0 / Cryptic 7 // Psion 5 / Force +1 / Metamorph 7 /// Mythic Genius 1

since i didn't have it, i don't feel a loss by not having it.


I've got my information, it's up to you guys to decide where you want to go. I'll find you again wherever you end up.


OK then, off to the brothel then!


M Humanborn

Heads up,

My posts will be sparing for the next day. I will be flying on a trip. The trip will be mostly leisure, but I will be working via phone/laptop. As such, I will still have time to post.

If you are one of those folks that has estimated the approximate times I am typically online, I will be on at different times. Five hour time zone difference will have me signing off five hours early, but also a drastically reduced work schedule will have me begin posting much earlier.


Male Human Harbinger 1/Stalker 1(gestalt)

Just want to apologize for my lack of participation lately. I've been rather busy with trying to get into several other games, including a really amazing Dark Ages Vampire the Masquerade one. Also have some real life stuff going on, including getting ready for my friends wedding this weekend.

Will try and catch up tonight and get up a reply. Sorry again for the silence/inactivity.


Sashin, yin. If the Count starts cooperating feel free to jump in with your own questions (though, hopefully, we don't need to implicate any of the townsfolk who have talked to us so far).

Sashin, you already know what we picked up while were out. Once I'm finished with Count I'll explain go over it to everybody else. (Mineire also has a bit of it, but I don't know if he'll want to brainstorm with whoever else is downstairs.

Who else should we try and talk to in town? Temple of Abadar seems like it could offer a good lead.


Ongoing effects:
Clinically insane. Mind twisted and bent, not broken(at least not literally), x/y Mythic Power
Sorcerer(Dreamspun)20 /Oracle(Dark Tapestry)20 / Archmage/Hierophant 10 | Deity of Shinyness and Stuff

If she had no reason to act, Yin will curiously observe this interesting process of "asking questions". If he fails to answer properly, she still has the option to brain drain him...(which was her primary plan all along, but this is too interesting to interrupt).

Plus, I have no idea what you picked up. Yin's main interest would probably be in "Where's our friend?" and "Why did you take our friend?"...if you fail to ask those questions, she'll likely try and pick up the answers before leaving...


Ongoing effects:
Clinically insane. Mind twisted and bent, not broken(at least not literally), x/y Mythic Power
Sorcerer(Dreamspun)20 /Oracle(Dark Tapestry)20 / Archmage/Hierophant 10 | Deity of Shinyness and Stuff

just to get this right...you guys are now focusing on bloodless, eldran tosh and a dragon?

No worries about Marita, whos marriage we came to celebrate?
Just asking because I have no idea how many HP this guy has...


Firstly, if we were to name Marita by name it puts her life at risk.

Second, Marita and here fiance were taken from the Bloodless. We deal with the bloodless, we'll probably find Marita.

So, if you'd like, you can attempt to kill, torture, or mind-break him or whatever. Just know that in doing so you only make the situation more complicated than it has to be and puts the lives of our friend and the townsfolk in general at unnecessary risk.


Ongoing effects:
Clinically insane. Mind twisted and bent, not broken(at least not literally), x/y Mythic Power
Sorcerer(Dreamspun)20 /Oracle(Dark Tapestry)20 / Archmage/Hierophant 10 | Deity of Shinyness and Stuff

They were taken by the bloodless, but how do you know what exactly happens to her(AFAIK getting turned into a bloodless), or where it happens(could be the temple, could be any other place)?

We can chase red herrings all day, even get to the bottom of what this is about, meet this tosh guy and talk it over with him...and all the while, our friend is being submitted to torture or killed for whatever reason.

The only thing I know about these guys is that they don't take things slow. That guy at the entrance? Broke the rules, got killed.

You see my dilemma with not looking directly for someone abducted when we know those vanishing end up being turned INTO these things? I don't think mentioning our friend puts her at any more risk than being turned into one of these things anyway. I reckon they are called "Bloodless" for a reason so I also doubt it's a very enjoyable process.

I'd rather think mentioning her name could help us(and thus her) because right now we are only antagonizing the Count, for reasons he does not understand, if we tell him our reason for out actions he may try to get rid of us by giving back our friend and picking someone else.

Also as said I can't help but see that we have no idea WHERE they are being taken to for certain, either. We know the Temple of Abadar is involved somehow, and that the Count's probably terrible at ruling and likely will be infuriated after your calm emotions wears off(and will likely call the guard on us anyway...considering his agreement not to was under magical compulsion and may not be seen as binding).

As for kill/torture/mind-break, no, nothing of the sort. Just brain-drain. I would prefer if it did not do damage, but it does. But then I'll have his knowledge(local) for about 2 minutes, and can take full round actions to try and find relevant information. Such as "where do they take them, whats the real reason he did this, etc. etc...basically he can't "evade" or "bluff" because I just take the knowledge I need.
Considering he's at or near the center of this whole thing, it could be reasoned that it's quite easy to find relevant information...


Again, as I've said, if you have an action you wish to take then go ahead. I think Brain Draining him will only make the situation much worse in exchange for an immediate benefit, but it's not like I can stop you from doing it IC.

If we implicate Marita or otherwise let the count know specifically who we are looking for, we give him the advantage. He can use her as a bargaining chip, or he can make her current situation all the more unpleasant.

You also have to realize that Sashin, Mineire, and myself all of have access to information that you do not (because I haven't had the chance to explain it yet).

I think I gave you guys more than enough time to handle the brothel investigation in whatever way you saw fit. For whatever reason it was not an opportunity capitalized upon, so now I've arrived and I'm asking the questions that I think are important.

I am concerned about Marita, of course, but I have reason to believe that the situation is far more dire than some petty political corruption and kidnappings. As a Gossamer Lord I believe my obligations are far greater. Currently finding and possibly stopping Tesh is my priority and if saving our friend is a pleasant side effect of those actions, so be it.

Right now I am refraining from posting temporarily as I'm not quite sure what I want my next move to be yet. If you all have something you want to do, now is a wonderful time to do it.


Ongoing effects:
Clinically insane. Mind twisted and bent, not broken(at least not literally), x/y Mythic Power
Sorcerer(Dreamspun)20 /Oracle(Dark Tapestry)20 / Archmage/Hierophant 10 | Deity of Shinyness and Stuff

aye. I think the problem I see is mainly in that you have not made it known that you have additional information.

It's not only that I don't have this information, in character, neither do I KNOW that you have this information.

Besides, I doubt things will get much more dire. You intruded on him while he was busy in a brothel, and cast magic on him to keep him compliant, then intruded into his mind.
So, yeah, I think the situation with him is already pretty unsalvagable.

As for your concern, if you did not have the time to wait until he was done in there, then it should be all the more important to act quickly.

Also, in character, I've heard nothing about this Tesh yet except that he's in league with the Count, so definitely not a priority of any sorts in regards to him. As you say, you know things I don't, but I have to act according to what I know.

So yes, I will forcefully take information from him without asking, when we leave. Up until then, everybody else can still act or interact. Yin will drain him for in-character reasons at the moment we leave, then possibly follow that up with feebleminding him to buy us a headstart.

Again, sorry, not trying to cause problems but according to what I know, our number 1 priority is finding Marita, all the other stuff is "local news" but nothing we are involved in yet.
Gossamer Lord or not, I don't have a habit of overthrowing every government not to my liking on any world I visit, my obligations are to protecting worlds from the dwimmerlaik, so unless there's a known connection between Tesh and them, he'll only move up on the "things to deal with" list if he's responsible for ruining this Wedding(which, right now, is the Counts fault in my eyes).


That's all well and good. I just wanted to make sure I gave a reason for why it seemed as if I didn't care for Marita.

As and aside: the GM went out of his way to provide information to me via PM while I was out on my "excursion". In respect of that I have been very careful not to reveal anything until I have the chance to do it IC (though I did hint that I had come into some information in the discussion thread).


In Summary: I know that you know that I don't know what you know.

Feel free to, uh, stand around and catch up on what you've each learned. XD


Ongoing effects:
Clinically insane. Mind twisted and bent, not broken(at least not literally), x/y Mythic Power
Sorcerer(Dreamspun)20 /Oracle(Dark Tapestry)20 / Archmage/Hierophant 10 | Deity of Shinyness and Stuff

haha, yeah, barrett, I fully respect that and find it's a great way to handle it. You could have given us a brief overview before storming in there, just a general perspective. Alas, we failed to do that, and consequences will play out...I doubt we break anything if we break him, though.

and yep GM, we'll catch up afterwards, maybe together we'll get a somewhat complete picture :)


Like I said, I'm still trying to decide my next move. That Share Memory was supposed to be my ace-in-the-hole and it failed hilariously.

At the moment my only gamble remaining is to hit him with a Burdened Thoughts spell and hope that he has a conscious, which is a terrible plan.

I'll probably end up leaving peacefully if I can't think up anything more clever.

Also: I passed the information onto Mineire in the hopes that he would convey some if it, but that didn't pan out as I had hoped. So yeah, I guess it's kind of my fault but I kind of just wanted to get this Brothel thing done and over with.

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