(2) - Dawn of the Metahumans

Game Master mdt

Known Metas | Tutorial | Former Masonic Temple | Teletran III

Jungle Encounter 001


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Male
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Just to let you all know, I was travelling heavily 10/27 to 10/29, I'll be catching up on 10/30
Human GM

On the DB thing, you have to remember, things were 'below the radar' before, so gathering info was hard.

Nowdays, there's websites that keep track of people and their powers, so picking up a skill in 'known metas' is not that hard, and Pulse can easily do it with her internet mind browsing.


Female Mentalist
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/8 | Levels +0 | PD/rPD 4(24)/0(20) | ED/rED 5(25)/0(20) | MD 15 | End 50 | Stun 35 | SPD 4 | PER 13-

I apologize for misunderstanding, then - when we got told by what's-her-name down in the vault that they knew quite a bit about us (including Violet's real name) - I assumed that Paper and Jester knew that information, as well. My mistake. :)

And yeah, I figured that was the reason why the DB was not immediately available, but in character, Violet brought it up at least three times, and each time it was a non-starter. Hence my statement about the whole "we did at least try" thing.

I appreciate the clarifications!


Male
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Just to let you all know, I was travelling heavily 10/27 to 10/29, I'll be catching up on 10/30
Human GM

Yep,they got all the information from the fight with Paper & Jester, via the puters.


37/37 Stun | 46/46 End | 8/23 Body | Unfired Brick

I'd love a more well-rounded clayface powers suite to complement his brick. Love all of the ideas, especially Area effects and reaction grabs.

As for coming up with combat tactics. We've only been in a few combats for combats, to "justify" coming up with those team tactics, even if I knew what they were.

FWIW, I would be all for an NPC in the mindlink suggesting team combat tactics.

cheers


Male
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Just to let you all know, I was travelling heavily 10/27 to 10/29, I'll be catching up on 10/30
Human GM

Well, yes and no. Remember, you went through 3 months of training in combat. I had thought that would be enough to justify you coming up with tactics.


Male Energy Projector (fire)

For the record, I don't have too many ideas as far as retooling Blaze; he's fairly straightforward. Maybe some sort of fire suppression/absorption thing?


Magnetic Projector
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/5 | PD/rPD 5(20)/0(15) | ED/rED 6(21)/0(15) | MD 0 | End 100 | Stun 50 | SPD 4 | Per 13-
Headputer

@Blaze: I'd go with fire suppress or drain, totally. And possibly a change environment to make the immediate area warmer. Otherwise, you've got a full suite of abilities to take advantage of. Are there any cool things you'd like to learn to be able to do? Like maybe not needing to breathe?

It's also worth noting, to Kitty's credit, that the first thing their sparky did after I started suppressing him, is to entangle Pulse, who had pretended upstairs that she needed to 'reality hack' with gestures. So it lets us be tricksy.

I'd definitely like to either invest in that 'know metas' thing (cause I also get bonuses from a complementary skill of COMIX, probably), or tactics, straight up. I think Tactics is a better fit on another player, but I would like a Meta reason for people to listen when Pulse says something seems like a good idea. :)


37/37 Stun | 46/46 End | 8/23 Body | Unfired Brick
mdt wrote:
Well, yes and no. Remember, you went through 3 months of training in combat. I had thought that would be enough to justify you coming up with tactics.

Wasn't that 3 months of combat training before we put this team together? Meaning, it would address the individual combat training more than team tactics, right? Or am I misremembering again?


Male
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Human GM

Your training was both individual and as a team. granted, it was a different team, but that doesn't mean you don't have justification for making modifications to your previous planning.

The US Army spends 3 months training people into soldiers, those people train in teamwork, but are rarely in the same team going forward. Your training was to justify you being able to talk OOC to make plans for your tactics, and that's why I kept saying OOC you needed to. I'm a bit at a loss for what I need to do to convince everyone they can actually discuss tactics. Do I need to do something to make you feel like it's not metagaming? I could have the world stop and a divine power appear and point at each character and tell them they are granted the knowledge to plan. This is a serious question, I have been posting and asking you to plan things out as a group and come up with tactics and work together, and each fight is still like your first ever. I don't know what else to do as the GM...


Male
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Just to let you all know, I was travelling heavily 10/27 to 10/29, I'll be catching up on 10/30
Human GM

On a more humorous note, to lighten the mood after that last post, I have an amusing story for you.

Back when I was first a player in Champions, rather than a GM, my GM at the time (Bobby) was a good GM who was very hyped on champions (back before Iron Man made it chic).

We had a major story arc that ended in a fight on an island. There were 3 major bad guys, and he had in his head how the fight would go. The first major Big Bad was a super-man type brick, whom he assumed would be the hardest for us to defeat, and would take all of us at once. The second Big Bad was a woman who had sonic attacks (my Siren was inspired by her, she was called Circe by him). The third was a desolid mentalist who was psychotic and could actually do body damage with his mind.

Our team was :
A Captain America clone brick (complete with shield)
A Mentalist about like Gene Gray
A Variable Power Pool character based off Shane Gooseman from Galaxy Rangers
A Shrinking/Enlarging Speedster
A martial arts/gadgeteer android who'd taken the previous Martial Arts/Gadgeteer's place (unknown to others) when the original died.

The android was my character. The GM expected me to get out of the plane as we flew up and go engage with the mentalist hand to hand with our Mentalist, as we were the only ones who could affect him (I had a 4d6 HtH with Affects Desolid), and for the brick and everyone else to go deal with Circe before we all met up to fight the main big bad.

I derailed his plans by, instead of leaving the plane in hover mode and going out to fight the desolid mentalist, simply flying the plane up to the mentalist, flying through the mentalist, and hitting him in the head with the staff as he passed through the plane with a move-by powered by the plane's engines, without ever leaving the pilot's seat. Rolled a head hit, con-stunned the mentalist. He resolidified inside the plane's structure, got shunted out of it, took damage from that, and fell unconscious into the ocean and drowned on the first hit.

The brick leapt from the plane and cannon-balled the big bad along with the shane clone who did the same thing, con-stunning the big bad with a coordinated cannonball, while everyone else jumped out of the plane to beat on the big bad while my character flew the plane into Circe at maximum speed and blew it up on top of her (my character also had desolid, and just went desolid at the last minute and leapt from the wreck).

A fight he'd planned out for three months and we finished it off in less than an hour real time. He was somewhat at a loss for what to do for the rest of the night, we ended up trading RPG stories.


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Magnetic Projector
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/5 | PD/rPD 5(20)/0(15) | ED/rED 6(21)/0(15) | MD 0 | End 100 | Stun 50 | SPD 4 | Per 13-
Headputer

A significant part of the problem for me is that attempts to plan have mostly resulted in everyone doing what they wanted anyway, and that often what we thought was right immediately becomes wrong: Hitting the character with the force wall with two people just wound up injuring our two people, because she could place her forcewall such that it was no longer a coordinated attack, so they couldn't break it, so they hit this huge wall of pain. Lesson learned: Don't coordinate against someone who can summon a brick wall.

The fight with Jester/Queen was difficult because we didn't know the mechanics properly to deal with it. Snapdragon said it took a 'move action' to use our perception check, and no one ever questioned that. So, until I looked into it, we lost a turn every time we failed to the images. The proper solution to continuous images or flashes, once you know your perceptions are in flux, is to delay your turn until you can see, and then act.

Something we neglected to realize, is that each person was brought for a purpose. Jester/Queenie were the lookouts/interference. Circe was the mastermind and could sweet talk people. Firecat was their locks guy, and Doc Shock was their grab-man/driver. When we took out one of the two upstairs, they gave up. Going into that, I expected to have to KO both, which was a silly perspective to take, so not knowing how close we ever were, I kept testing the waters on hitting each to see how they reacted; if jester's illusions kept up, if Queenie had non-visual perceptions, so on. As it turned out, in both cases, taking any one of the group out resulted in our victory, so the correct course of action was to pick one and hammer them down.

MDT has also shared a link a long time ago that no longer works, that shows the curves that he uses in this game. If you are tanky, you are easier to hit, if you are harder to hit, you are less tanky. If you hit hard, you are less likely to hit. If you are more likely to hit, you hit less hard. Rocket was generally above the curve, combat-wise, Pulse was generally below it. I'm fine with Pulse being below it, because I really enjoy her being able to utilize more utility (like having a blind attached to her blast). I believe Violet is also below the curve, but she focuses on a different set of rules than everyone else.

What this means, is that each of our characters has inherent issues with fighting specific enemies, in addition to the obvious ones listed on their character sheet. A Brick v. Brick fight is a slugfest. You'll wreck each other over time as you're able to hit each other but do minimal damage. A Brick v. Speedster is a limp noodle against a brick wall. The Speedster's damage generally won't do much at all, but they're generally safe until the Brick connects, then they're splattered over so much concrete. Martial Artists tend to be between the two, more capable of landing and defending, but less likely to explode an enemy, but instead control them. Mentalists and Projectors tend to be lower on these curves as a whole, but have a lot of utility to make up for it. Aegis hits things in the face for truck. Mud hits things in the face for truck. Rocket Hits things often for car. Snap focused on grabbing and controlling. Violet and Pulse both have alternate senses to locate enemies, and both have alternate, somewhat reliable damage no matter the target.

The main way to deal with bricks right now is to mindblast and pulseblast them. Their defenses tend to be subpar v. mental and Pulse has an NND that doesn't care about how how your defenses are. If you go up and punch a brick as a brick, you're opening a can of worms of 'who is the better brick'. If you want to be a brick that beats bricks, invest in armor penetration and find weakness.

The main way to deal with Speedsters is either high-to-hit or AoE. Or dropping a brick wall in their path. Currently, our reliable ways of dealing with speedsters mostly consists of Violet via targeting ECV or Blaze with fireballs. This means we kind of need an open space where the speedster is visible and harm to the world is lessened in order to work well as a team, but that also plays to a speedster's advantage.

Martial artists and projectors are just located in between. They can't take a hit like a brick, but are able to avoid hits better. Most everything will work on an MA or Projector that they don't have a trick to deal with. Some will be more speedster-like, some will be more brick-like, and the rules for dealing with one or the other apply better, then.

The main way to deal with mentalists is... I don't know. I don't know how to deal with mentalists. If they have a mindscan then blinding them will generally do little. (I think Circe needed eye contact, which limits her range, but I'm not sure). Right now, a mental suppress/psychic surgery to chip away at things like that is probably our best bet. Alternately, two people in their face, punching them, should do it. Due to the way that crit works in this game, Ego is super-strong. I recommend hitting them with a van from a direction they can't see. They should typically be less physically tanky/avoidy than anyone else because they've invested in ego pretty heavily.

Violet is good at dealing with anything that isn't a mentalist. Fighting a mentalist results in a tickle fight, as they keep trying to get through the other's ego, and only finding more primadonna layers like some kind of weird russian nesting doll. Bricks tend to have low mental defenses. Speedsters tend to rely on not getting hit. Martial Artists are more likely to have mental defense. Projectors are a mixed bag. Violet can generally hit desolid. She should never be in something's face.

Pulse is good at helping to deal with anything. She's not good at doing anything solo, but can set others up for success by making the target easier to hit and having reliable damage. She is also good at adjusting the battlefield somewhat, and can play merry havoc against gadget enemies who haven't invested in protecting their gear and other sparkies. Pulse can generally affect desolid, but not necessarily hit it. She should never be in something's face.

Mud is good at getting into something's face and announcing himself as a threat. If he is not in something's face, he isn't being very effective. His only tools for dealing with threats not in his face are throwing things (including mud balls). Generally, he should be trying to get in their face, though, if he's not playing D. You will eventually win against a speedster, especially if you grab something to make an AoE attack with (including your bud ball). You will reliably lose against anything that penetrates your defenses, and anything that can stay away from you.

Aegis is good at getting into something's face and announcing herself as a threat. If she is not in something's face, she isn't being very effective. Her only tool for dealing with threats not in her face is to throw things at them. Generally, she should be up in their face, if she's not playing D. She will eventually win against a speedster, especially if she grabs something to make an AoE attack with. She will reliably lose against anything that can penetrate her defenses, and anything that can stay away from her. You are the most vulnerable on the team to mentalists.

Blaze is good at making things feel pain. He can penetrate a brick's defenses, he can semi-reliably hit speedsters even without AoE attacks, and he will pretty much always hit them with AoE. His biggest weakness is that the building is on fire and it is totally his fault. He can fly to stay out of range of a lot of threats, when he's not trapped in a building. He's our main way of dealing with flying enemies other than Violet, and can work well in concert with Pulse for the same. He should never be in something's face.

Bricks make themselves targets by creating situations the enemies must deal with. Projectors/Mentalists make themselves harder targets by staying at range.

Are there any corrections to be made here?


Magnetic Projector
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/5 | PD/rPD 5(20)/0(15) | ED/rED 6(21)/0(15) | MD 0 | End 100 | Stun 50 | SPD 4 | Per 13-
Headputer

My recommendations for things to nab:

Violet needs a reliable way to target things other than sight, probably by buying mindscan outside of her power pool.
Aegis and Mud need ways to differentiate themselves from one another. Heavies that can go desolid, with extremely high defenses, and high health pools. One is made of money, one's name is dirt. For Aegis, I think effortless strength (zero end strength) or hardened defenses (able to deal with armor piercing) are the way to go. For Mud, I'm less certain, but Violet had an entire post on making him more controlly that you liked.
Aegis needs a way to reliably use her powers without worrying about bringing the entire building down (the flight thing) and a way to make herself appear less indestructible (the invisible power effects thing).
Blaze needs a way to enable the use of his powers without burning everything down. Suppress Fire/Drain Fire/Transfer Fire?
I have no idea what Pulse -actually- needs, aside from mobility. Maybe speed 5? I keep buying things I think are cool. I am open to suggestions.

Kitty: Are there any clear gaps that we need to fill in, given our lack of typical party mix?


Female Mentalist
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/8 | Levels +0 | PD/rPD 4(24)/0(20) | ED/rED 5(25)/0(20) | MD 15 | End 50 | Stun 35 | SPD 4 | PER 13-

MDT, I'm sure you've answered this question way back in the dim time of the game's origins, but is there a particular reason you're using the hit location charts rather than standard stun multipliers, as is more usual for a Super Heroic game?

I know that 3rd/4th Ed Dark Champions suggested using the hit location modifiers for "super heroes with guns and knives," but as the majority of us are more typical 4-color (or 3.5-color) heroes, is it still appropriate for us to do so?

I'm cool either way, but I've been wondering about it.


Male
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Just to let you all know, I was travelling heavily 10/27 to 10/29, I'll be catching up on 10/30
Human GM

@Pulse - Excellent summation, and something that makes me a very happy GM. That's pretty much what i've been pushing for all game. The only thing you're short of right now is a speedster, thanks to Rocket leaving. I would be ok with Pulse going up to 5 to be a half and halfer (half speedster, half projector).

@Violet - I've always found the hit locations to be much more comicy than the flat multiplier. Every comic I've ever read or watched on tv used hit locations (the classic Supes slamming a fist into Lobo's chin to slow him down, Batman using his armored forearms to block blasts to his chest, Flash slamming fists into his enemies head repeatedly to rock them off their feat). It's a lot more exciting, I think, for people to get a head hit (either on them, or on the enemy) and have it really matter, than to take a x3 flat and then just say they did a head hit and it doesn't affect the enemy. Finally, it negates certain builds if you do, such as having called shot levels, and makes speedsters even more 'meh' as they can't do called shots to punch more damage through.


37/37 Stun | 46/46 End | 8/23 Body | Unfired Brick

As much as I enjoy Mud, I'll leave the space for Aegis.

I can play a speedster; although, I've never liked playing a pure speedster like Flash. My only idea currently is a Nightcrawler like speed teleporting m'artist.

You guys are far more creative than I am, so I would appreciate any ideas from you. Maybe something will click with me.

cheers


Male
Latest Message:
Just to let you all know, I was travelling heavily 10/27 to 10/29, I'll be catching up on 10/30
Human GM

Well, we can alter Mud to more of a Clayface type, which would be radically different from Aegis. So that's not a problem.

If you do want to switch, we can work on something. I've done Nightcrawler types, or even mixed types (teleporting brick speedsters like Shadowcat, flight speedster projectors).


Female Mentalist
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/8 | Levels +0 | PD/rPD 4(24)/0(20) | ED/rED 5(25)/0(20) | MD 15 | End 50 | Stun 35 | SPD 4 | PER 13-

My vote's for Clayface Von Stickygoop.


Female Caucasian
Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:
A significant part of the problem for me is that attempts to plan have mostly resulted in everyone doing what they wanted anyway

That was mostly due to mud being semi afk and aegis being able to figure out who the real threat was, I have talked to about this before.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


Lesson learned: Don't coordinate against someone who can summon a brick wall.

Coordination was not the problem, the lack of it was. Just hitting her together did not work because we didn't understand how her wall worked but having one distract while the rest jump her would have been better.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


The fight with Jester/Queen was difficult because we didn't know the mechanics properly to deal with it. Snapdragon said it took a 'move action' to use our perception check, and no one ever questioned that. So, until I looked into it, we lost a turn every time we failed to the images. The proper solution to continuous images or flashes, once you know your perceptions are in flux, is to delay your turn until you can see, and then act.

Not knowing the rules well enough seems to be a common problem but delaying until you roll well is 1) boring and 2) a death sentence for the squishies, unless the bricks are using their turns to draw aggro.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


Something we neglected to realize, is that each person was brought for a purpose. Jester/Queenie were the lookouts/interference. Circe was the mastermind and could sweet talk people. Firecat was their locks guy, and Doc Shock was their grab-man/driver. When we took out one of the two upstairs, they gave up. Going into that, I expected to have to KO both, which was a silly perspective to take, so not knowing how close we ever were, I kept testing the waters on hitting each to see how they reacted; if jester's illusions kept up, if Queenie had non-visual perceptions, so on. As it turned out, in both cases, taking any one of the group out resulted in our victory, so the correct course of action was to pick one and hammer them down.

Most enemy teams have been somewhat organized so far, I think that's more you neglecting than we. Testing things does not really work well when you are on a timer focus fire is key to winning most fights.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


The main way to deal with bricks right now is to mindblast and pulseblast them. Their defenses tend to be subpar v. mental and Pulse has an NND that doesn't care about how how your defenses are.

Blasting is a huge waste when MC/illusion are so strong Bricks having a low mental stat and mentalists have 0 limits on their casting pretty much turns them into a free attack for the mentalists by just spamming 'kill your friends'. The problem is this works on us and we have two bricks, if aegis had failed her first few saving throws vs the illusions someone would likely be re-rolling. We -need- to kill mentalists ASAP like I said the moment she tried to MC Aegis.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


If you go up and punch a brick as a brick, you're opening a can of worms of 'who is the better brick'. If you want to be a brick that beats bricks, invest in armor penetration and find weakness.

Why would you though? Mentalists deal with them 10000x times better.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


The main way to deal with Speedsters is either high-to-hit or AoE. Or dropping a brick wall in their path. Currently, our reliable ways of dealing with speedsters mostly consists of Violet via targeting ECV or Blaze with fireballs. This means we kind of need an open space where the speedster is visible and harm to the world is lessened in order to work well as a team, but that also plays to a speedster's advantage.

A better way with our team comp would be for someone to pick an easy to land disable, once a speedster can not move he is dead.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


The main way to deal with mentalists is... I don't know. I don't know how to deal with mentalists. If they have a mindscan then blinding them will generally do little. (I think Circe needed eye contact, which limits her range, but I'm not sure). Right now, a mental suppress/psychic surgery to chip away at things like that is probably our best bet. Alternately, two people in their face, punching them, should do it. Due to the way that crit works in this game, Ego is super-strong. I recommend hitting them with a van from a direction they can't see. They should typically be less physically tanky/avoidy than anyone else because they've invested in ego pretty heavily.

To deal with a mentalist we need to focus them, they general have weaker physical so if they get dog piled they will drop, raw DPR is ideal. It should not just be two. Again Mentalists are one of the biggest threats to our team EVERYONE needs to focus them like I have said repeatedly.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


Violet is good at dealing with anything that isn't a mentalist. Fighting a mentalist results in a tickle fight, as they keep trying to get through the other's ego, and only finding more primadonna layers like some kind of weird russian nesting doll. Bricks tend to have low mental defenses. Speedsters tend to rely on not getting hit. Martial Artists are more likely to have mental defense. Projectors are a mixed bag. Violet can generally hit desolid. She should never be in something's face.

Can still provide bonuses VS enemy mentalists and once the main target gets dropped she has no real reason not to spam MC on the enemy brick.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


Pulse is good at helping to deal with anything. She's not good at doing anything solo, but can set others up for success by making the target easier to hit and having reliable damage. She is also good at adjusting the battlefield somewhat, and can play merry havoc against gadget enemies who haven't invested in protecting their gear and other sparkies. Pulse can generally affect desolid, but not necessarily hit it. She should never be in something's face.

Pulse is a support with no Niche, aka not really helpful. I have told you everytime you bring up her lack of combat abilities that it is because you refuse to specialize and call throwing points everywhere "Organic". If you want to run support great but adding +1 to everything is almost the same as you not even being in the fight while +10 to hit could make or break a fight.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


Mud is good at getting into something's face and announcing himself as a threat. If he is not in something's face, he isn't being very effective. His only tools for dealing with threats not in his face are throwing things (including mud balls). Generally, he should be trying to get in their face, though, if he's not playing D. You will eventually win against a speedster, especially if you grab something to make an AoE attack with (including your bud ball). You will reliably lose against anything that penetrates your defenses, and anything that can stay away from you.

I do not know what clayface is so I can not comment anything here but'beat by things that bypass defense' applies to literally everyone.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


Aegis is good at getting into something's face and announcing herself as a threat. If she is not in something's face, she isn't being very effective. Her only tool for dealing with threats not in her face is to throw things at them. Generally, she should be up in their face, if she's not playing D. She will eventually win against a speedster, especially if she grabs something to make an AoE attack with. She will reliably lose against anything that can penetrate her defenses, and anything that can stay away from her. You are the most vulnerable on the team to mentalists.

Aegis can deflect any ranged attack, at least currently, so she does have use outside of melee. Since her and Mud's problem is mainly landing a hit, if someone gets a lockdown power our usefulness will spike.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:


Blaze is good at making things feel pain. He can penetrate a brick's defenses, he can semi-reliably hit speedsters even without AoE attacks, and he will pretty much always hit them with AoE. His biggest weakness is that the building is on fire and it is totally his fault. He can fly to stay out of range of a lot of threats, when he's not trapped in a building. He's our main way of dealing with flying enemies other than Violet, and can work well in concert with Pulse for the same. He should never be in something's face.

His energy blast should not set the building on fire as far as I can, it does not do fire damage and he does not have a disad for it to spread but his flavor might cause this I do not know.

Hotaru Hoshiko wrote:
Are there any corrections to be made here?

Yes


Magnetic Projector
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/5 | PD/rPD 5(20)/0(15) | ED/rED 6(21)/0(15) | MD 0 | End 100 | Stun 50 | SPD 4 | Per 13-
Headputer

Re: The Threat: The guards were killing pulse. The sparky was dealing damage to everyone. The mentalist was messing with you and that was a time bomb. They were -all- threats, and we -all- didn't focus.

Re: Coordination wasn't the problem: My bad, using the Teamwork Skill to have all of our eggs in one basket against someone who can just abort to stop it all, is a bad idea. We need to take multiple actions and only do a little teamwork at a time instead of overkill.

Re: Waiting until you can see to swing: Swinging when you can't see can be a death sentence for everyone and wastes Endurance.

Re: 'We': That's fair. I shouldn't view my perspective as everyone's perspective.

Re: Mind Control: Violet kept not being able to do this very effectively because the enemy team had defenses against it, we don't. That's probably a suggestion for investing in defenses against mental things.

Re: Brick v. Brick: Yes, I'm trying to give tactical advice for people who are filling a role. 'Don't fight bricks head on as a brick, because everyone loses' was the point of that.

Re: Easy Disables: Like Mud's and Pulse's blinds. We currently don't have entangles or grabs.

Re: Focus mentalists: Yeah, probably KOing enemy wizard is the way to go when that's feasible, no one's standing in lava, they're within easy reach, etc. That's the main reason I suggested to violet to get a non-visual targeting sense, so she can stay out of sight and safer.

Re: Breakout rolls: Yeah, psychic surgery/mind control drain is just better than those, if we invest in it.

Re: What does Pulse need?: I'm still open to suggestions on what Pulse needs.

Re: What is a clayface?: To oversimplify, clayface is a mud monster, that changes his own form, is super sticky, things like that. Things get stuck in him, he doesn't care about most things. He turns his hands into giant morning stars, and such.

Re: Bypassing Defenses: My bad, I meant to say 'bypassing your PD and ED' via things like armor penetration. This is less bad for a speedster who won't get hit and for whom half isn't 15, and much worse for you who will likely always get hit and will take significantly more damage than you're used to.

Re: Deflection: Yeah, so if the enemy is out of range, intercepting attacks by standing next to our squishies is probably a good call.

Re: Blaze sets things on fire: That's how special effects work. It's not 100% that he'll start a fire by throwing a fireball, but anytime you apply fire to an area, there's a reasonable chance that something in that area will not stop being on fire immediately.


Magnetic Projector
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/5 | PD/rPD 5(20)/0(15) | ED/rED 6(21)/0(15) | MD 0 | End 100 | Stun 50 | SPD 4 | Per 13-
Headputer

Re: Clayface v. Speedster: I'd actually prefer growing current characters over replacing them, overall. You both have solid differences in your characters, I'd just like to see them expanded upon. :)


Female Density Control Brick
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 05/05/05 | PD/rPD 5(28)/0(15) | ED/rED 5(28)/0(15) | MD 00 | End 50 | Stun 50 | SPD 03 | PER 13-

@Pulse: Already answered in PM since none of that really helps the others.

Vi powers: MC and Illusions seem to be the strongest Mentalists powers by a long shot.

Disadvantages: Vul seems to be a trap of a disad, it has a huge draw back for how little points it gives.

IVF: IMO this would ruin Violet, Aegis would not let her fight like that and it opens a ton bad options for an already mentally unstable character. It seems like unnecessary drama

Training: I think a lot of the training and teamwork problems come from a lack of knowledge on the system. With how open the rules are it is hard to use 'common sense' fight styles.

Blaze: If you are going to be dropping your super suit mid combat you might want to invest in some kind of fire proof mask. You could also do something like desolid and by 'effects real world' for your blasts

Speedster Mud: Playing a character just to have that class on the team is a really easy way to get tired of the game. Speedsters are b%#~$&@# anyway, at least in comics/shows, IMO you'd be a lot better off filling a niche like 'CC spammer' or 'battlefield controller' than just straight up swapping characters or no real reason.

Did I miss anything?


Female Mentalist
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/8 | Levels +0 | PD/rPD 4(24)/0(20) | ED/rED 5(25)/0(20) | MD 15 | End 50 | Stun 35 | SPD 4 | PER 13-
Pulse wrote:
Re: Mind Control: Violet kept not being able to do this very effectively because the enemy team had defenses against it, we don't. That's probably a suggestion for investing in defenses against mental things.

I confess that the large amount of mental defense on bad guys thus far is frustrating on some level, but I completely understand why MDT would want to make sure that I can't just roll over the bad guys with it.

That being said, the speed with which characters who aren't Violet have been able to buy Mental Defense has been a bit slow. I know Rocket was looking to build it up for some time, and I haven't looked at his sheet, so I don't know how successful he was.

I do think we should look in to getting Mental Defense en masse, though.

I also need to look in to buying off Violet's requirement for verbal commands on Mind Control, so as to get around a thus-far serious tactical problem.

I'm also going to review the 5E rules for Mind Scan, as we had a situation in Blaze's game over the weekend that - as run by the rules in the book - was different than how we've been doing them here. I'd like to make sure that I know what I'm doing with my own powers, so I need to make sure I'm not confusing them with 4E.

Aegis wrote:
IVF: IMO this would ruin Violet, Aegis would not let her fight like that and it opens a ton bad options for an already mentally unstable character. It seems like unnecessary drama

On some level, I agree with you there. That being said, I don't think it's entirely out of character for her to at least think about it. The one person who's actually been able to deal with her issues, who actively supported her, and was genuinely in love with her, and now he's gone? She's going to want to try to find some way of having a part of him around - and deep down, Violet's a product of her lab-bound upbringing, watching Leave It To Beaver and Happy Days and all those other Oh-So-Wholesome American Reruns - 2.5 kids, a cat and a dog and a picket fence have always been her long term dream goals.

Sure, she might never get those, but they're what she dreams about when she's not dreaming about getting poked with needles.


Magnetic Projector
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/5 | PD/rPD 5(20)/0(15) | ED/rED 6(21)/0(15) | MD 0 | End 100 | Stun 50 | SPD 4 | Per 13-
Headputer

Oh god, let's not do an episode where violet has mental illusioned everyone into Pleasantville. D:

I don't think Pulse would try to talk you out of it, but I do think she'd be pretty adamant that you couldn't be on active duty, which would mean swapping characters during that time, or having to just... watch things happen.

On the bright side, you could take like 1 month to have the kid, stating 'speedster-mentalist baby = super advanced kid in 1.5 seconds' and go full Twilight with it. :P


Female Density Control Brick
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 05/05/05 | PD/rPD 5(28)/0(15) | ED/rED 5(28)/0(15) | MD 00 | End 50 | Stun 50 | SPD 03 | PER 13-

Talking about doing it and doing are very different, even if it makes sense IC it is an awful idea OOC IMO


Male
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Human GM

Note that Violet's Mind Scan is in her multipower with all the other mind powers, that means it can't be used to remote target someone. That's possibly why your experience in BLaze's game was differnt?

RE IVF : She could always get a surrogate mother (RepliKate for example).

Also, remember, MC and Illusions are no more powerful or weak than mind blast. They just work different. MC is easy if you're hitting someone and trying to get them to do something they are inclined to do. If you are trying to get them to do something they violently oppose, it requires a crit hit (which is slightly easier against a brick than a mentalist, but it's still not automatic). Illusions scale on how different you are making the change, and how big an ego/defense the target has.

Rocket had bought 5 mental def (giving him 8) but it didn't come into play.


Male Energy Projector (fire)

Thinking of ways to expand Blaze, I came up with a strange idea: Multiforming into a different element—like going from fire to water, or air or earth (sandblasting, anyone?). Multiform is a bit tricky, but if nothing else it could provide some humor when he's first learning and can't control which one he turns into…

BLAZE: "En Fuego!"
*turns into a puddle of water*
BLAZE: "Um…En…Agua?"


Male
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Human GM

It would be cheaper and easier to simply by a +1/4 Variable Special Effects on Blaze's powers. Then he could become an elemental, choosing an Element each time.


Female Mentalist
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/8 | Levels +0 | PD/rPD 4(24)/0(20) | ED/rED 5(25)/0(20) | MD 15 | End 50 | Stun 35 | SPD 4 | PER 13-
Pulse wrote:
Oh god, let's not do an episode where violet has mental illusioned everyone into Pleasantville. D:

Killjoy.

Aegis wrote:
Talking about doing it and doing are very different, even if it makes sense IC it is an awful idea OOC IMO

If we were doing this tabletop and not PBP, I'd be more inclined to follow through with it.

mdt wrote:
It would be cheaper and easier to simply by a +1/4 Variable Special Effects on Blaze's powers. Then he could become an elemental, choosing an Element each time.

ThisRightHere.Gif


Male Energy Projector (fire)
mdt wrote:
It would be cheaper and easier to simply by a +1/4 Variable Special Effects on Blaze's powers. Then he could become an elemental, choosing an Element each time.

The only problem I see with that are the permutations on explaining some of his other powers—like the damage shield, for example. Still, it's definitely food for thought.


Male
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Human GM

Damage Shield : Ice spikes, Stone spikes, Lightning aura, Slicing winds...


Magnetic Projector
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/5 | PD/rPD 5(20)/0(15) | ED/rED 6(21)/0(15) | MD 0 | End 100 | Stun 50 | SPD 4 | Per 13-
Headputer

You'd also have to buy your flight with some 'usable as' mods, but that actually makes it so that you can learn to do it over time. You could also expand your life support in much the same way. Perceptions, ditto.

As for multiform, I've got an oracle-by-day, werewolf-by-night concept that takes advantage of it. But the concept of everything man is a scary one that is super easily possible with liberal use of multiform.


37/37 Stun | 46/46 End | 8/23 Body | Unfired Brick

If I'm keeping Mud, what about the following changes?

1. Add that passive grab to the EC when someone hits him

2. Buy off the phase activation of Multi

3. Add cosmetic shape shift to multi, so he can infiltrate

4. Make the stony prison an area effect, at least 1 hex,

5. Add a force wall to the multi

6. Eliminate the tremor sense, and dump active points into the multi

7. Increase Teamwork skill

8. If we're advancing on the power curve, increase Dex to 17 or 18

9. Buy 5 points of Mental Defense


Male
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Human GM

Ok, I made some changes to MUD. I think you'll like them.

1) Reduced str to 10.
2) Added a STR damage shield, variable target (to allow him not to use it on people if he chooses not to), usable as attack, include advantages on base power, doesn't work in sub-zero temperatures or under water (except for 10 str). This lets him make a grab attempt at anyone who touches him, or to use his strength to attack others. His overall str drops to 35 (7d6) making him less of a brick (but differentiating him from Aegis), but turns him from a knock you into next week brick (like the Thing) and into a Tie you up and make speedsters cry brick (like Clayface). This is also now 0 endurance, so he doesn't use endurance to punch (unfortunately, this also means he can't push his strength).
3) Got rid of his energy damage reduction, upped his physical damage reduction to 75% (not vs ice/water). This makes him able to go toe to toe with bricks and martial artists if need be, basically he shrugs off a ton of physical damage, but is damaged normally by energy attacks.
4) Upped his multipower a few points, added a bit to every slot, and added a new slot, Shape Shift, Humanoids, Makeover (meaning he can set his Comeliness anywhere from -10 to 30). He can't yet imitate people, but he can change his appearance whenever he wants, male, female, scary ugly or model handsome. This includes his clothes.
5) Upped Base to 10 points.
6) Put 5 points into followers (base staff).
7) Added Sculptor skill as familiarity (for shaping rock)
8) Upped Teamwork to full skill (12 or less)
9) Added 5 pts of mental defense

He did lose some endurance and stun, but he's using less endurance and taking less physical damage.

You can see the changes in your character sheet by clicking on your link.


Magnetic Projector
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/5 | PD/rPD 5(20)/0(15) | ED/rED 6(21)/0(15) | MD 0 | End 100 | Stun 50 | SPD 4 | Per 13-
Headputer

Suddenly, everyone appears simultaneously, looking at XP sheet.

:P


Male
Latest Message:
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Human GM

Ok Blaze,
I typed your character in. I found a couple of mistakes you had, nothing major (you under-reported a disad by 5 pts, over charged yourself for one of your EC powers, you forgot to take 'no str adder' on the HKA).

My Updated Propopsal

Based on our discussion :

1) Upped your Body by 1
2) Upped your End to 40
3) Upped your Stun to 40
4) Added Teamwork Skill
5) Added Vehicles & Bases points (10)
6) Added Followers points (5)
7) Altered EC to 70pt EC (35 AP)
8) Altered Forcefield to 16 PD/ED, Variable Special Effects (6 elements)
9) Altered Damage Shield, Made it Offensive, Made it Variable Special Effect (6 elements)
10) Altered Flight, Made it Usable as Other (Based on Element, Fire, Air, Electricity - Flight; Tunneling (Earth); Running (Ice); Swimming (Water)), and added Position Shift and x4 NonCombat
11) Upped MP to 70 AP
12) ALtered Energy Blasts to add Variable Special Effect (6 elements), no change in dice
13) ALtered Life Support, Safe in High Pressure, Safe in Intense Cold, Sfe in Intense Heat, Self contained breathing
14) Modified disads to represent new reality (altered your vulnerability, x2 for opposing element, based on your current element, you don't take double when you're not in IHID), reduced penalty from nearsightedness (congrats, your body got better!), increased hunted from govt (now watched), lowered hunted from company (harder to hide attacking you), lowered DNPC (mom is in another city now).


Male
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Human GM

Oh, I forgot to confirm this earlier. Pulse was correct about Circe needing eye contact. That's why she always spoke to the person before she mind controlled them, people have major issues not looking at someone talking to them. On top of that, even if they are blind, it's her needing to see their eyes, not them needing to see her eyes. That's why she went defensive when she got flashed (that actually works very well no matter what, on most mentalists! It would work on Vi as well!).

Her limitation of needing to see eyes vastly limited her range (basically in the same room), and also meant wearing a mask (which nobody really does here) would have shut her down.


37/37 Stun | 46/46 End | 8/23 Body | Unfired Brick

I'll need help interpreting how to use that STR power in combat. If he punches or grabs, he has a 35+25=60 STR? How does a damage shield work? Doesn't he still need to hit a speedster with that 5 OCV?

Can you make the Entangle Area Effect too?


Male
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Human GM

No, he has 35 str, period. (He lost some strength). So he does 7d6 if he punches someone. He does 7D6 if someone hits him, or he does a 7D6 str grab if he grabs someone, or if he grabs someone who's hitting him. If someone hits him multiple times (autofire punch) he does damage or grabs multiple times (or at least, until he grabs all their limbs).

If someone hits him, they take 7d6 physical damage as his body hardens and grows spikes. Or, he relaxes as they hit and he does a 7D6 grab attack as they hit. He doesn't have to make an attack roll if they hit him, it just happens. Damage is to the hand (unless they did a move through), but for grabs that doesn't matter. If a speedster hits him, he auto-grabs the speedster (if he wants to) when the speedster hits him.

Since you can auto-grab a speedster who attacks you, you don't really need an AoE entangle (if I put AoE on it, it'll lower the dice so low that even a speedster or mentalis will break out of it).


37/37 Stun | 46/46 End | 8/23 Body | Unfired Brick

Ah ok. So you're considering this auto-hit, auto-grab in his power curve attackiness?

I'd prefer AOE on the entangle to affect normals and areas. I like one hex or explosion.


Male
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Human GM

Ok, but if I make it AoH, it's still going to drop the dice down so even normals can break out of it. But you want it, you got it. Normals usually have 3 to 5 DCV, so not nearly as hard to hit (considering hitting a hex is DCV 3).


Magnetic Projector
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/5 | PD/rPD 5(20)/0(15) | ED/rED 6(21)/0(15) | MD 0 | End 100 | Stun 50 | SPD 4 | Per 13-
Headputer

Do we think that Pulse's always-on-forcefield Debacle should be an onscreen affair for an arc, or should it just be window-dressing between 'right now' and 'it's fixed' by the time of the next mission?


Male
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Human GM

That's up to you.


Male
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Human GM

Mud's sheet updated. Note, I do not want complaints when the entangle turns out to be a very minor speedbump at best.


Magnetic Projector
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/5 | PD/rPD 5(20)/0(15) | ED/rED 6(21)/0(15) | MD 0 | End 100 | Stun 50 | SPD 4 | Per 13-
Headputer

Will there be much downtime between arrive-in-future and next mission? That kinda determines how much sense it makes to 'skip'. :)


Male
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Human GM

OK, Pulse Updated with latest idea (Semi-Speedster/Projector) :

1) Dex increased to 20 (OCV +1)
2) PD +1
3) Added KS : Known Metas
4) Removed all Languages except English
5) Increased Base to 10 Points
6) Added 5 Points of Followers
7) Added 5 points to Puter
8) Added Universal Translator (17-, Electronic Languages Only, Must have spec for language or takes 1 to 6 weeks to decipher language)
9) Consolidated Multipowers into one MP
10) Increased MP to 70 points
11) Added new slot : A Certain Scientific Railgun (9d6+1 Energy Blast, Multi slot, Obvious Expendable Easy recovery Focus (Pocket full of Quarters))
12) Removed Forcefield.
13) Added Buckyball Brigade : 15 PD/ED Armor, Extra Time (1 hour, only to activate), OIF, Becomes 15 PD/ED ForceField, 0 end, persistent, uncontrolled, always on if Foci lost)

You can see proposed changes in your link now.


Male
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Human GM

You'll all likely have 2-3 months to learn your new powers. It would be extremely appropriate to have the new abilities found through slapstick accidents or hilarious misadventure.


Female Mentalist
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/8 | Levels +0 | PD/rPD 4(24)/0(20) | ED/rED 5(25)/0(20) | MD 15 | End 50 | Stun 35 | SPD 4 | PER 13-

If I could make a suggestion, re: Mud...

Go back to the "if they hit you, you grab or attack them" power for now, and buy a separate AOE entangle later. This will dramatically increase the effectiveness and will make it harder for anyone to actually take Mud out by certain means (such as overpowering him, etc).

OR, if you really want a ranged entangle, buy one, but make the "Range Based On STR," as a limitation, so that you actually have to throw the entangle at people - this dramatically reduces the ranges on things (by a LOT), but it also makes it more realistic in terms of only being able to hit as far as you can reasonably throw.


Female Mentalist
Stats:
OCV/DCV/ECV 6/6/8 | Levels +0 | PD/rPD 4(24)/0(20) | ED/rED 5(25)/0(20) | MD 15 | End 50 | Stun 35 | SPD 4 | PER 13-

Just confirming, our total earned XP should be 50 now, right? Making us 400 point total characters?

And a follow-on question I missed earlier:

mdt wrote:
Note that Violet's Mind Scan is in her multipower with all the other mind powers, that means it can't be used to remote target someone. That's possibly why your experience in BLaze's game was differnt?

Did I miss that in the 5E rules? Where does it say that? I'm not near my book right now, or I'd check.


Male
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Human GM

It's not a 5e rule per se.

It's a natural consequence of having your mind scan in your multipower with your ego attack/mind control, and having Ultra Slots.

An Ultra Slot demands that it be powered at full if it's powered at all (that is, if it's 60 active points, you have to use it at 60 active points).

Your mind scan is slot B, and is a Multi. However, the only other Multi slot you have is Mental Illusions in slot E. So, trying to juggle those two powers in the Multipower means you either (1) Don't have enough mind scan dice to lock on, or (2) if you do put enough into it to lock on, then your Mental Illusions can't overcome their ego due to lack of dice. And you can't combine Mind Scan with any other power because all other slots are Multi.

When you started buying them multi, I think I had said that Ego attack would be better to go Multi, because then you could do at least 1D6 ego attack. But Mental Illusions is all but useless with it. And Telepathy is an Ultra Slot, so it's not usable. I think at the time you planned to buy them all multi slowly, but honestly your mind scan, if you want to use it, should probably be pulled out and made cheaper with limitations so you can use it with the multipower and then make the multipower all ultras again.


Male
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Human GM
Project Violet wrote:

If I could make a suggestion, re: Mud...

Go back to the "if they hit you, you grab or attack them" power for now, and buy a separate AOE entangle later. This will dramatically increase the effectiveness and will make it harder for anyone to actually take Mud out by certain means (such as overpowering him, etc).

OR, if you really want a ranged entangle, buy one, but make the "Range Based On STR," as a limitation, so that you actually have to throw the entangle at people - this dramatically reduces the ranges on things (by a LOT), but it also makes it more realistic in terms of only being able to hit as far as you can reasonably throw.

I should probably go do that, it makes more sense for the entangle to be strength based now that he's going clayface.

As to the entangle, he can still throw it, but it's 2d6 2 def, which means he'll average 1 body 2 def, meaning an average person can make an easy ego check to push str and break free of it. Most metas are going to shred through it as a free action since they can push for free.

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