Are we waiting for Mud and Aegis, or are we waiting for kitty?
Waiting on Aegis and Mud on 9.
I cannot post until Tuesday evening. Bot me if too long
Thanks
Is it possible to buy ego 'only for defense'? How much of a cost reduction is that?
I ask, because it seems cheesy, but without high ego we're really likely to get crit for max mental. :(
No, you could buy 5 pt levels with ECV for Defense, but honestly, you'd be better off buying mental defense with the same 5 points.
I'm confused.
Did the energy projector's arc of electricity hid Mud, doing damage, or did it hit the wall and miss Mud?
If it hit the wall, missing Mud, and is still damaging him, is that because of the attack being an explosion or some kind of SFX?
Probably a lightning bolt, ala dnd.
There are two things going on Vi.
There's the smaller arcs from floor to ceiling throughout the area, that hit everyone with no need to roll because it's area of effect.
Then there's the big heavy lighnting bolt that the electrical guy fired and hit Mud in the stomach with and bounced him off the wall with it.
There are two things going on Vi.
There's the smaller arcs from floor to ceiling throughout the area, that hit everyone with no need to roll because it's area of effect.
Then there's the big heavy lighnting bolt that the electrical guy fired and hit Mud in the stomach with and bounced him off the wall with it.
Okay, so, the fact that there's the AOE going on, plus his individual attack (how much END does this guy HAVE, anyway?). I am aware of that, and that's not what's confusing me.
What's confusing me is that the way you wrote the initial strike of that lightning bolt, you make it sound as though it missed.
The man with the electrical aura flings another arc of energy out toward Mud!The arc of electricity slams into the wall behind Mud, and chunks of concrete are blasted free and scorch marks left on the wall.
(Emphasis added)
That description says that it didn't actually hit him in the stomach.
It hit the wall behind him.
Then, right after the damage calculation:
Mud is flung back hard against the wall...
So first, the bolt misses him, then he's hit and flung against the wall.
That's where my confusion comes in.
Having run play-by-post/email games before, I know how important it is to be accurate in combat descriptions. I also know you wouldn't roll damage dice if you hadn't hit. So I'm curious as to whether or not the bolt hit him and did a pass-through, or if there was a text error, or what.
Dat's all. :)
Yup, and still the question of whether or not Aegis hit the Mind Controller. :)
Oh, sorry, no, that was a copy/paste error, I forgot to delete the 'missed' from the previous post when he hit. Tired GM error.
No question on that, I said she missed and hit the floor and cracked it.
Your post for Aegis missing got eated, sorry kitty!
Is it possible to 'buy off' something like the vitals/stomach damage bonus in some way for a character who 'doesn't have vitals'? Like a giant blobby thing?
Sort of, you could buy damage reduction 25% resistant 'only for stomach', if you had some sort of giant blobby thing
Neat, so Mud pretty much already has that. :)
MDT
So, just to be clear that little Energy Killing Attack is not NND, right? You had one post where you listed as Energy Defense, NND, which confused me.
Mud has invested 45 points in Life Support and damage reduction to represent how inhuman is body is. So, if a random robot gets in the "stomach" location and is affected by x1.5 Stun, then everyone (Pulse's comments too) will understand.
Lastly FWIW, I concur with Rocket that Mud would be violently opposed to mud-balling one of his friends. Would Mud be violently opposed to hitting a companion with a Mud Ball if they were walking in the middle of a busy expressway or walking on a thin ledge of a cliff, where instantly losing their sight would mean almost certain violence? I think yes, IMHO.
cheers
Ok, that's fine. But I'm going to use the same logic any time Vi tries to mind control the bad guys, they will be violently opposed to everything she tries to make them do, because it could negatively impact their companions if they do anything you want. So basically, you guys, in order to avoid the bad guys powers, are hamstringing VI.
I'm also going to never use mind control again as the GM, because it's not worth the arguments.
The attack is not an NND, I don't know how many times I have to post that.
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is an RKA and goes against Resistant Defense.
The attack is an RKA and goes against Resistant Defense.
The attack is an RKA and goes against Resistant Defense.
The attack is an RKA and goes against Resistant Defense.
The attack is an RKA and goes against Resistant Defense.
Mud has invested 45 points in Life Support and damage reduction to represent how inhuman is body is. So, if a random robot gets in the "stomach" location and is affected by x1.5 Stun, then everyone (Pulse's comments too) will understand.
I do not understand this statement. Is it your contention that because you have life support and damage reduction, you should not have the 1.5 mutliplier?
I'm perfectly fine with you stating that your body is equally amorphous across the board, from head to toe, and shouldn't have 1.5 or x2 multipliers for head and guts.
This will also mean that his hands and feet and arms and legs also have a x1 nor stun as well.
This would basically mean that his entire body is x1 nor stun at all points, and x3 stun multiplier from head to toe.
Being serious here, I have no issue with that, it just averages out your damage taken, since you'll take damage from arm and leg hits that other people would shrug off, but won't take more damage from head or vital shots.
Um.
I've never been a fan of location multipliers in a Super Heroic game, myself, but I understand why you're using it in this game (as it makes perfect sense given the nature of the game).
I'd like to chime in on the Mentalist debate:
Firstly, from where I'm standing at least, MDT isn't actually telling you what your character would and would not do in a given situation. That's still up for each player to decide and determine. Case-by-case arguments can be made in any situation. For example:
Bob attacks Costumed Robber A with a Mind Control Attack, telling him to turn the butt of his tommy gun on Costumed Robber B.
Costumed Robber A is actually violently opposed to this, as the GM has decided Costumed Robber B is Costumed Robber A's brother.
Costumed Robber A gets the bonus.
Later, Bob does the same against Masked Goon A, also against Masked Goon B.
Masked Goon A has no problem with this, as the GM has decided he's a for-hire merc and doesn't really care about Masked Goon B whatsoever.
Masked Goon A does not get the bonus.
The same case-by-case basis can be made each time for the PC's.
The difference here is that The PC's have to make these decisions every time.
I strongly suspect that had MDT asked the question "Hey, Mud, are you violently opposed to throwing your mud ball flash at one of the PCs?" followed by "Well, pick the one you have the least issue with, and throw it at that one," we wouldn't be having this conversation.
For the record, I'm fine with a case-by-case, as it means that we don't have a set effect modifier to work with every time, and it also means that some times things will go swimmingly in our favor, and other times they don't. I'm fine with in-character frustration, as it gives Violet a chance to improve and develop herself.
Essentially I'm saying that as an experienced Mentalist player, I'm fine with it, but I'm also willing to go with the GM's ultimate decision, regardless.
Re: Stomach:. He pretty much already has 'no part of me is extremely important' per damage reduction.
Re: Mind Control:. I can't say what another pc would or wouldn't be opposed to. I do feel that pulse would be violently opposed to hitting an ally with a blind when an enemy just wrecked our tankiest person while they could see.
I also think that pulse has shown an unwillingness to hurt allies, back during the skirmish with Transducer. I can't speak to violently opposed. I think it's best if we kept that to psych disad based, as mdt has. I personally do not mind the mind control enemy, but I've also not been the target of it.
I vote we just trust the DM here.
I do think that the amorphous thing is a cool idea. That a leg hit is the same as a stomach hit for mud, so location no longer matters. I do worry it may be a bit too strong as it removes hit locations as an option to penetrate his tankiness. But it -is- cool!
So, by taking the stance that every action against your allies you are violently opposed to, then you are leaving me with two options mentalists :
Always build them so that they can hit EGO+40 or EGO+50 in order to overcome your default 'Must get at least 60 effect' because nothing they can tell you to do is not violently opposed. Or you are telling me 'we do not want mentalists in the game' because you wish me to hamstring them to the point of being unable to do anything.
You are also making the following statements :
I am as opposed to blinding/grabbing/blocking my allies as I am opposed to killing/maiming them. I am unsure how people can hold that belief, but lets go with it for now. If that's true, you've backed the mentalists into the corner where no command they can give does not require the equivalent of 'Kill your ally' which means that they have no reason not to go with a lesser effect and might as well tell you to kill them every time.
This means that you're making the enemy mentalists both hamstrung and deadly, sort of like playing russian roulette. Sure, 4 times in a row it means you get away scot free from having the enemy mentalist affect you. Then the 5th time, you roll an 18 on your will save, and Mud then turns liquid and pours himself down Pulse's throat and fills her lungs with his own body and kills her.
Classically, in the comics, interfere with your allies is considered a lesser effect than kill them yourself. Even though you know your allies might be hurt if you do it, you're not directly killing them yourself. This is supposed to allow mentalists to have a lesser effect to still be useful without completely nerfing them or requiring them to be so powerful that they crit you on every hit. It's a balance thing in the system.
If you prefer to argue that every command you're given by an enemy is violently opposed, then you're throwing that balance out the window and saying 'I want to play russian roulette, or I want you to get rid of mentalists from the game'.
I do think that the amorphous thing is a cool idea. That a leg hit is the same as a stomach hit for mud, so location no longer matters. I do worry it may be a bit too strong as it removes hit locations as an option to penetrate his tankiness. But it -is- cool!
There are more locations with 0.5 multiplier than there are with 1.5 or 2 multiplier, so it evens out. Sure, he can't get his bell run as easy, but he'll be taking more stun over all than before. So it evens out. That's why I have no trouble with it.
I played a character for a long time that had the same thing. Based off the Crow mythos, he was a vengeful spirit in mortal form, so he didn't have any vital organs or non-vital organs.
I don't at all take that stance. To put it in another way: I am violently opposed to maiming Aegis. I am less opposed to blinding Aegis to prevent Aegis from maiming Violet. In fact, I'm pretty much all for that. Pulse would probably hesitate, but then do the right thing.
I think the only person who suggested 'blind an ally' was violently opposed was Rocket. I just didn't speak out because I thought you'd handled it. :) I think that it's -definitely- at least the Ego+20. Because let's say Mud splats Pulse. Then Sparky hits Pulse with lightning. Pulse is royally screwed.
Now, devil's advocate: Would you push your friend for ten thousand dollars? Would you push your friend for ten thousand dollars next to some subway tracks? The situation changes it. I think that it's significantly less than Ego+20 in the former situation, but at least that in the latter.
It may not be an accurate association, but what I had in my mind is that each 'level' of min control improves your relationship status with the person you're using it on.
1: Neutral; Won't go out of their way for you, much.
2: Friendly; Will take what you say into account, may do you favors.
3: Helpful; Will believe what you say if you don't outright feel that you know otherwise. Will do you favors, may protect you.
4: Slave; Will believe and do whatever you tell them. They're no better than your arm at this point, doing whatever you tell your arm to do.
Then there's a .5 step in all of that for things like 'would sell friends out for a klondike bar' v. 'In love with'/'pacifist'/'suicidal order'
That's very much not exactly how the book lays it out, but it's how I would as a DM, because it makes sense to me.
So with an Ego+20 (level 3) target, 'Would Mud blind an ally who is hurting his other ally?' I think that's probably a yes. Like, I really believe he'd have blinded Aegis to protect Pulse and Violet. Heck, he could even follow the letter of her order and hit someone who doesn't need that form of sight to operate (like, I don't think his mud affects heat vision). If he's really cheeky, maybe Mud considers the policeman still armed with a gun is a member of his team. *Shrugs* It's all very open to interpretation, and in her exasperation, she wasn't very careful with her wording. :)
Like, I really believe he'd have blinded Aegis to protect Pulse and Violet.
Yeah, I've gotten the same vibe from how he's been played.
I feel I should go on the record as stating again that I'm cool with the GM's decision and I feel it makes a good in-character basis for self-improvement-oriented frustration.
It'll drive Violet to get better. I'm cool with that.
If he's really cheeky, maybe Mud considers the policeman still armed with a gun is a member of his team.
No, his allies are his allies, not innocent mind controlled bystanders.
The attack is not an NND, I don't know how many times I have to post that.
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NND
The attack is not an NNDThe attack is an RKA and goes against Resistant Defense.
The attack is an RKA and goes against Resistant Defense.
The attack is an RKA and goes against Resistant Defense.
The attack is an RKA and goes against Resistant Defense.
The attack is an RKA and goes against Resistant Defense.
Sorry Mud, this was inappropriate.
Work, Insomnia, and diabetes induced mood swings. Apologies.
I believe it's Violet(Ego)/Blaze's turn. Let me know if I'm wrong!
Is Sparky higher or equal to Blaze's 20 dex? My brain is being fuzzy.
If I've a choice, I'd prefer Mud not to have the hit location due to his inhumanness.
As for the mind control. Whether violently opposed or not Mud is still affected.
Thanks
Ok, after this fight, Mud will no longer use hit locations. Every attack just does what it does.
Mud actually succeeded on his breakout roll by 3 (after the penalty of 2).
We've gotten insanely lucky with the mind controller.
Are we waiting for Blaze (Dex 20) or Doc Shock?
As that's Phase 12 finished, I think it's recoveries again, then Circe? :)
Sorry, long weekend for me, I am working the weekend, so I've been up since 10PM doing documentation. ANd still need to write at least 3 more today and this evening.
We're on Phase 3. So, Mud might be able to act, because he recovered from Con Stun. Is he still affected by Mind Control as per this roll?
Stun 22 +16 Post 12 = 38 Stun
He has a chance to make another ego roll, but otherwise, yes he'd be affected still if he fails it.
Just a note, the suppress helped, it reduced some of his power, and knocked out their mental link while it was up.
I may be confused, but with an Ego roll of 8 and an EGO of 13-, even with the penalty of 2, he should have overcome the control, right? I may have been doing things wrong for a long, long time, if not. :P
As for suppress: Yeah, I totally got that. I saw his stun multiplier go down by 1, I think. I'm really hesitant to allow it to drop while Aegis is on their team. But I really, really can't keep up 12 end per round, and we really, really need someone other than Blaze to do damage to the targets.
Did he still have to pay the full end for the suppressed abilities, or did he actually get a reduction in cost due to my suppress?
Nope, he had to pay full price. And you saw the damage go down in the area of effect (1d6+1, 1d6, 1d6-1).
I thought he said he failed, if he failed, he was still under control. If he succeeded, he wasn't. I didn't follow the link, I said what he needed to roll originally so just assumed he was correct he failed.
Not criticizing or asking for a change or anything, just chatting about the system. :)
I've been doing some math today, and I feel like buying pure ego is simply better than Mental Defense in most situations. There are edge cases like 'ability doesn't work v. target with mental defense' and direct ego attacks, as well as things that don't target ECV but are still v. ego. You get slightly better returns for Mental Defense v. pure ego attacks (the stun kind).
The way crits work just pushes it even more heavily in favor of raising Ego being strictly better than buying mental defense in almost all situations. I've got some napkin math for you if you want it, but it's doing me a concern that it's just so easy for a mentalist to crit a non-mentalist.
But I figure that's true for most of the characteristics being overbudgeted compared to the things that derive from them. Just Crits add a lot more value to Ego for ECV and Dex for O/DCV on top of their naturally above-average per-CP gains. Have you found that to be true?
Edit: It's worth noting that I only really did the math for high-rollers like Circe. In smaller scales, it's honestly more valuable to have the extra Mental Defense than the harder-to-hit thing. The issue then lies in the fact that lower dice pools don't work at all. Like if your average results are around the egos of your targets they don't really need to invest in any form of defense anyway. (Like, if your average is around 28 (topout 48), you're looking at generally getting folks to buy you drinks or something, and sometimes having real effects)
Note it's also extremely easy to crit most Bricks, which is why they tend to have high defenses, with dex attacks.
Ego Defense is pretty cheap (1 pt per) and costs no endurance. Ego is 2 per, and does nothing vs ego attacks, so it's something.
Note that even to crit Aegis, she has to roll a 3,4,5,6,7 on 3d6. You have about a 16% chance to crit (That is, about 1 in six attacks).
You have about a 12% chance of critting Aegis if you're Rocket.
And, note that Circe is a high roller, she's supposed to crit 2 or 3 times in a battle. The way mind control works you pretty much have to.
Yeah. I think Violet actually hit the power curve spectacularly looking at my napkin math. She's got a solid chance to hit, and on an average roll gets -something-, but still needs luck or a crit to get something game-changing (against someone PC-level). It just seems like a really good space to be.
Depending on if Pulse survives or not, I'm looking at a lot of different things for what I need to get to get her more reliably relevant in combat.
1: More dex for higher to-hit and higher dodge and higher teamwork.
2: Tactics, so she can use her Comic-Book know-how to our advantage.
3: Viable Flight; she's not going to be as fast as the rest of the team without substantially more investment than I think I'll be able to pull off, but being the only person without a 'fast mode of movement' really hinders the team (unless I'm able to cling to Aegis in a wide open space.) Similarly, knockback resistance. Both are really cheap with metal-weighted clothes.
4: Permaforcefield then later change it to Armor.
Is there anything you feel I should really look at upping first?
As a side note, the way I've been viewing Pulse's stuff is mostly happening at a cellular level. Like she doesn't so much 'hear or see' radio waves as she feels them and her cells can vibrate back. Her increasing Con is her cells becoming more efficient and communication between them relying on minute electromagnetic waves rather than the typical chemical receptors (Bonus: More resistant to microbe/viral invasion!). That her increasing ability to utilize magnetism is her learning to polarize individual cells, and so on.
When her powers go haywire and lock her in a permanent forcefield, that's basically her body rebelling against all outside sources (as it's recognizing the outside world as a constant threat; it doesn't fully understand it has to also get nutrients from out there).
That really makes your bucky-balls idea really really cool because then it's sort of like Pulse's body accepting the nanocarbon tubes as an extension of the self, which really just adds so much more cool stuff. *Always excited for Pulse growth*
Yeah, it's pretty insane what a critical roll on 12d6 Mind Control can bring to the table.
That being said, I've been purposely looking at expanding Violet's power suite, rather than increasing her active point cap, because I heeded MDT's admonition of "if you put too many more points into attacks as a group, the bad guys will start dialing up dramatically as well."
Not that I've done anything with Violet except swap her Ultra slots for Multi slots, thus giving her more versatility. But I paid attention!
We're on Phase 3. So, Mud might be able to act, because he recovered from Con Stun. Is he still affected by Mind Control as per this roll?
Stun 22 +16 Post 12 = 38 Stun
Ok, so, apologies again to Mud. I've been swamped with work and getting a new replacement game up and I'm not doing a good job over here and I apologize again.
I thought I had listed how much he had to make it by, but apparently I didn't (yet another GM screwup, *sigh*), and then I misread his post as saying he had failed it, not asking if he had (yet another gm screwup, *double sigh*. So, he broke the mind control, sorry.
thanks
So, to Aegis, her friends just all teleported away without a word?
(Or at least went invisible or something else she didn't know they could do at all?)
Pretty much. Leaving her alone and out numbered.
She'll get a +1 to the ego check since she hasn't seen them teleport before.
Edited my post with a perception check and a conditional at the end!