(2) - Dawn of the Metahumans

Game Master mdt

That's a bad GM, not a bad system. Any system can be borked up if the GM lets it. HERO, GURPS, Pathfinder, any system...

I agree in part, but rules-as-written allowed every abuse the player pulled off, which was the second half of my despair.

Rules as Written for Pre/Post cognition also say the GM should be wary of the power. That means RAW the GM is supposed to reign it in.

Like I said, the second half of my despair.

I'm in if Zoeymajigger is. Especially with Post-cognition being a thing. I loves me some Psychometry, and I really want to play a character that uses 2b as a model. Have, ever since I saw it. (It was my 'Kensei' type character I sorta wanted to use here.)

Given the game concept, it's extremely unlikely any PCs would have psychometry.

So, supernatural stuff is mostly off the table for our side (at least to start)?

Yes, but ask questions in the recruitment thread please, so I don't have to repost the answers multiple times for others. :)

Sorry a minor injury and classes have kept me from posting, I'm hoping to get caught up with everything tomorrow, sorry for the delay.

May look. But I've never had a good playing experience with gurps.

Ok, almost ready to do EXP and such. So be thinking what you want to do. I know a lot of you had stuff you wanted. I'll be doing the EXP this week,a nd hopefully spending it all for people this weekend. Wanted to last weekend, but we didn't get there.

Hey mdt, it may well be on your mind but just in case, let me know when you've decided if we're going to keep playing multiple martial maneuvers the way we have so far, or if I should rebuild (as the RAW that I discovered make Rocket's build untenable).

Until I know, I'll wait to spend the XP we got last time and this new set as well. Once I know I'll start playing more with options. Thanks!

I need to dig up my ultimate speedster book. Thanks for reminding me.

Ah! I knew it had something in there for this...

Third, characters cannot perform “Multiple Passing Strikes” the way they can perform Multiple Move Bys. However, a character could use a Sweep Passing Strike to hit multiple targets. In this case, he gets the full movement addition to his damage (i.e., velocity/5) on all attacks. He doesn’t have to “slow down” between attacks, nor does making the attacks reduce his speed.

I knew there was something in the book about this. That's what I was remembering. So, using this ruling (which would also apply to passing disarm and passing throw), you can use a sweep <martial maneuver>.

Where it's different than what you have is, it would only affect multiple targets who are adjacent to you as you perform the action (IE: if you run between four people, and they are all within arms reach simultaneously, you can sweep all four with a strike or disarm or throw). You couldn't do a line of them.

If you aren't happy with that, we'll have to rebuild your character then completely, and give him a different way of doing the same thing.

That would also disallow using 3+ Passing Throws on the same target, yeah?

Thanks mdt, that was the passage I was looking at before. The big red flag for me was that Rocket is a lightweight. His shtick is more to *avoid* blows, not take'm to the chin like Aegis. Sweep halves his DCV (from 10 to 5) which is a recipe for being knocked out fast.

(By contrast, Move By (multiple or otherwise) is a flat -2 DCV penalty. To counter the former completely would take 10 levels in DCV. To counter the latter would take only 2.)

Looking around a bit, I just noticed the Two-Weapon Fighting Skill (10 pt) says "in campaigns that allow all characters to use the Rapid Fire and/or Sweep Optional Combat Maneuvers, a character using Two-Weapon Fighting only suffers a -2 DCV, instead of the standard halving of DCV." Would that work for Rocket, letting him do martial sweeps with a -2 DCV penalty instead of 1/2 DCV?

If that works then I have another question. (If Rocket can't use TWF or in some other way get around the 1/2 DCV penalty then I should rebuild and so this one's irrelevant.) Are you sure that, in those speedster Sweep rules you quoted, one can't attack a line of foes (or the same foe several times, running around them)? The wording 'He doesn’t have to “slow down” between attacks,' suggests otherwise to me.

If you agree with my reading that the speedster moving sweep vs a line (or while circling someone, a la multiple move-bys) is allowed, and if TWF can reduce my sweep DCV penalty to -2 instead of 1/2, then I think I can figure out how to make the current build work with small modifications.

If one or both of those don't work, I suspect we should rebuild. What do you think?

--------------------

As a totally unrelated aside, negative levels vs targeting seem WAY overpowered. It looks like Aegis could pay 12 pts to negate the -8 penalty to target a head shot (for a single strike, e.g. punch) and then every time she hit someone it'd be a punch to the face and they'd take double the BODY and STUN (that got past defenses). That seems like WAY too much for 12 pts.

Which is why the power has a stop sign on it, indicating the GM should watch it. Note I usually only allow that for people who do trick shots with low power but high accuracy (like the archer girl).

Re targeting: Ahhh, cool. Makes sense. I know Hero's flexibility requires GMs who are comfortable vetoing things that are over powered, even if they work RAW.

What are your thoughts on my Rocket build rules questions?

I was thinking it over.

I think you have a few options. We can just do a full rebuild and give you some similar and new options, and put it down to training. We could also go more along the lines of accuracy vs damage. Rather than doing 9 dice, you could go for hitting people where you want when you want and doing less dice.

Thanks for thinking about it!

When you've thought it through a bit and have some time to explain them, I look forward to hearing more about the options you see.

EDIT--------

In particular, I like the flavor of being able to disarm (or trip) several mooks at the same time. Is there a way to build that that doesn't cut my DCV by 1/2? I'm sure there must be!

I'm a fan of linking running to energy blasts with AOE (Line) or AOE (Area) and similar. That way, you have to move to the end of your line, and you move until you miss.

Scorcher, one of my most effective NPC Part-time-villain-part-time-hero speedsters in the West City game (Blaze's player should remember her) used Running (and later Flight) linked to Energy Blasts.

Limitations were things like "running ends when attack roll misses" (otherwise you move to the end of your running even if you miss), "range cannot exceed movement" and the like - so basically as long as you have range and running left, and you don't miss, you keep going in a straight line, hitting all opponents in that line.

Or that area. Or what-have-you.

Mind you, that was a 4th Edition game, so your mileage (no pun intended) may vary.

Note that I also think Rocket needs at least a 10STR AOE TK so that he can clean the entire room at once.

He can already do that, he's has skill levels only to reduce time. So, he can 'clean the whole room' in 3 turns rather than 10 minutes.

EXP has been handed out.

I'll do a rebuild of Rocket when I get a chance and post something. Then I'll get everyone else updated. Please post your latest wish list. Don't forget you lost some base points due to characters leaving, so you might want to look into those as a group.

2 points: KS: Business Administration 11-
2 points: Raise Teamwork to 13- (full 3 point buy)
2 points: KS: The Superhuman World 11-
2 points: Increase Deduction by 1 (14-)

Leaves me with 1 point left from this disbursement, for a total of 2 points unspent on my sheet.

How much downtime should we expect to have, so it makes sense how much my character learns? I assume more than a few days. :)

Wooh... emptied pool again.

Any suggestions on changes I should maybe make?

Assume a month at least.

TRANSFORMATION

1. Throw out his tremorsense & Multi-power. Replace with something more useful.

2. Open to any direction: magical as an avatar of earth; controlling earth like substances like concrete, asphalt, etc; controlling his shape like Clayface; or whatever.

EXPERIENCE

1. New identity, so he can register for class
2. Start studying Civil Engineering
3. Teamwork
4. Brick skills

Ok, Rocket Rebuild

Got rid of martial maneuvers, got rid of skill levels with move-by/etc.

Bought attacks MP, moved attacks from Running MP to Attacks MP.

Added attacks.

I'll Take Those - Area of Effect Teleport, only to disarm/grab objects. Requires OCV/DCV check. Takes a full phase, can't be used if grabbed/entangled. 12" radius (no range is inherent, ie: all targets must be within 12" of Rocket, teleport to him (piled adjacent)). DCV is opponent's DCV + Size Modifier (Easier to steal a tower shield than a BB). No str checks.

Winding Trail/Winding Trail Deux - 8D6 attack to any contiguous hexes you travel through/next to (must decide at start of movement whether it's hexes you move through or next to, and if next to, if left or right side). You pay endurance for the Str and HTH attack once for all attacks. Must be used with the Move-By maneuver (causing a penalty of -2 OCV on all attacks). Endurance cost is combined total of WT, WTD, and base Strength. If anything stops your movement, you stop attacking (Obviously).

Rapid Tasks - Upgraded version of previous ability. +12 with any Dex based skill, only for chorse, and only to counteract time modifiers.

Run-By-Grabbing - Bonus Str to grab someone as you run past (in general, you're not really doing Multiple Grab-Bys since you wouldn't use this to disarm people).

How much does it cost to buy up Perception? (Can't find that one in the book, but you suggested I do so.)

None-of-that-works! - Pulse's AoE Suppress: I'm not super sure how to use this properly, as she seems to have been... pretty much one of two people to have visibly used Electromagnetic powers. Would it shut down basically all computers and such (without destroying them)? Otherwise it seems like a dead-end powerwise, and Radio Field Disruption probably knocks out Comms in a much wider area, while create magnetic field destroys electronics effectively in a wider area than the suppress.

Yes, it would shut down cell phones, anything that cost less than 8 active points. Anything that costs more than 8 active points would be suppressed, so it wouldn't work as well (for example, a 10 pt cell phone would still run but probably couldn't get a signal). A bomb would not be able to detonate because the digital timer would not work (although a grenade would, since it uses a chemical fuse, not an electric fuse).

Thanks!! I love the idea of "disarm" built on AoE Teleport. The Winding Trail is interesting too.

A few notes / questions:

1) Let's call Dispel Gas/Smoke "I'm Your Biggest Fan!"

2) Does the attack pool all requiring Full Phase mean I can't run at the same time as ones that aren't modifications of a Move By or Grab By? I.e, do have to start and end in the same spot for Icarus Special, Biggest Fan, I'll Take Those, and Rapid Tasks?

3) If winding trail works with move by AND adds +4d6 HA, doesn't that mean it does 12d6 damage at full velocity (4d6 STR + 20"/5=4d6 Velocity + 4d6 HA)? That seems like a LOT for an AoO. Do I have that wrong?

3a) I know that it involves the Move By maneuver (so -2 OCV & DCV) but does it also get cumulative minuses for more targets & miss everyone after the first miss (like move by) or roll against everyone, assuming my movement isn't blocked (like an AoE)?

4) For run by grab, it seems like I end up rolling 14d6 (4d6 STR, 4d6 VEL, 6d6 extra STR). Is that right?

5) What skill(s) can I use for chores? That one's confusing for me. I can see that (as built) I can use DEX skills 3 periods faster (e.g. 5 minutes >> 1 phase) with no penalty, and could do up to an hour's worth with a -6 penalty. In practice though, can you help with examples? What are some actual skills I might use, and their difficulties? (Or maybe this is the real question: I see that this is a different way to buy Rapid Cleaning, but how is it mechanically different for Rocket?)

6) My mental defense doesn't seem like it's on the sheet yet.

7) Also there's a typo in Icarus Special: it's listed as 1d6.

Phew! That's a lot there. Thanks again!

Perception is directly tied to your INT. To buy it up, you either buy more INT, or you buy levels with Perception (generally speaking, 2 points for a particular sense, 3 points for everything).

@Rocket

2) Yes, it means the ones not requiring movement require you to stay in one spot. That makes sense if you think about it, you're too busy whilring your arms to run around, and running around would negate the wind. For teleport, you need to bring all the weapons back someplace.

3) You are doing a Move-By on a hex, and getting an area-of-effect attack along the trail. You don't get to add your velocity in, because you're not doing an actual move-by on the people. If you were, you'd be doing a multiple move-by and getting cumulative penalties. So, the only damage you get is 8d6, but you get it against every person in the trail, even if you miss one or two of them along the way. If you were getting the move-by velocity, you'd also lose the ability to attack after the first miss.

3a) You are executing one move-by attack on a hex (which doesn't really do anything) and then getting an area-of-effect attack as a trail. See 3 above for what that means about multiple attacks.

4) Yes, but it's vs a single target.

5) mechanically, you can buy additional skills and use them with this that you couldn't the old way. For example, you could buy Painting as a Dex skill and paint a house in no time. You could buy Origami as a dex skill and make a room full of cranes in a few minutes. You could buy Sculpting as a dex skill and make a clay statue in a few minutes, etc. Buy Violet's Maid as a Dex Skill and clean up her house in a few minutes. Mechanically though, the way it works is you make the check, then move down 6 levels on the time chart. You can add additional success levels from the check if the check doesn't matter (for example, clean is clean, so time is the only benefit of extra success).

6) I did the rebuild based on your existing powers, I haven't spent new stuff you did in game yet. I wanted to get the base right first.

7) I'll look at that, I didn't actually change that.

@Hotaru - What Violet said.

5: Clean is Clean: Not in my house. :| There's 'Clean' and then there's Clean. And I usually settle for 'Clean'. :)

2 points: KS: Business Administration 11-

2 points: Raise Teamwork to 13- (full 3 point buy)
2 points: KS: The Superhuman World 11-
2 points: Increase Deduction by 1 (14-)

Leaves me with 1 point left from this disbursement, for a total of 2 points unspent on my sheet.

After all your expenditures above, I show a total of 380 points spent, which is 2 more than your 278 experience. Did you forget about the 4 points you put into the base?

380 point sheet, in case I got something wrong

I'm not at my laptop at the moment, so I'll check that when I get home.

I'm pretty sure I remembered those points. I show I have two left, but I'll check.

-Edit-

I compared versions (thanks, Google Drive App!) and you're right. I forgot the 4 points on the base. Somehow. Darn it.

I'll revise my HDC file when I get done with my lunch outing, and correct the points.

TRANSFORMATION

1. Throw out his tremorsense & Multi-power. Replace with something more useful.

2. Open to any direction: magical as an avatar of earth; controlling earth like substances like concrete, asphalt, etc; controlling his shape like Clayface; or whatever.

EXPERIENCE

1. New identity, so he can register for class
2. Start studying Civil Engineering
3. Teamwork
4. Brick skills

I think you might like this better. I didn't get rid of the Tremorsense, you'll need it. :) But I did move you up to being able to handle concrete and asphalt, so as long as you aren't on a wooden floor you're good.

I modified the multipower into something to give a you a few more tricks beyond being a brick. Adam Storm

** spoiler omitted **

Most of the stuff is stuff that's been brewing; I.E. Ferrokinesis from Violet's christmas present.

Wooh... emptied pool again.

Any suggestions on changes I should maybe make?

I *think* this is what you wanted. If so, you have 9 points left. As to things you could do, you could strengthen your computer, you could also learn some more languages (other video codecs or other computer communications protocols, HTML so you can web surf in your head, or flash).

Hotaru

Very cool. I'll need the tremorsense for the tunneling, right? Can I bring anyone with me in the tunnel? How fast is 8" noncom in mph? What material is 4 DEF?

How does the full phase activate work for the attacks: flash and entangle? He can't move and attack. It takes his whole phase to do them? Like haymaker?

Can he use the flash and and entangle at range? Are there range penalties? If he entangles someone, does the entangle stay if he switches the multi to tunneling?

That transformation power makes igloos and walls, right? It's to cosmetically change the environment, right?

Please remind what the defense maneuvers I to IV are.

The hoist skill is to pick up awkward things, right?

It's Adam StorN with an N, in order to honor the artist who inspired the character.

Cheers

Mostly, there are a few things wonky, I'll get that looked into once home. Atm, her disads went weird. I was wanting to buy up to 28 con, so there's a bit of xp Mia that I need to ferret out. Will see!

@MUD

1a) 8" x 4 Spd = 32" / turn. 32"/Turn * 0.3728 (Quant's Constant) = 11.93 MPH. So slow but steady.

1b) You can if you choose not to fill in the tunnel behind you (since the tunnel would then be open. If you want to allow people to use it while you fill in behind, you'll have to go very slowly (tunnel forward, let people move up, go back and fill in, go back and tunnel forward). NOte that while YOU do not require life support while tunneling, if you close it in behind you, your ALLIES will. :)

1c) DEF 4 is light stuff, sand, dirt, dirt with stones, etc. Pure stone is 5 DEF (you're working on the power), Concrete is 6.

1d) Yes, you'll need the tremorsense while tunneling! :)

2) It takes a full phase to switch his MP from one slot to another. Once it's in a slot, he can leave it there and do things as a half phase if he wants (including tunneling a half-phase).

3a) Yes, they are ranged. Range penalties are on the character sheet above the to-hit table.

3b) No, if he switches the MP, after using a flash or entangle, the effect doesn't go away.

4) He has the potential to transform dirt/stone to dirt/stone in a different shape. Right now, all he can really manage is 'turn stone/dirt from it's current shape into an ugly blob' because he doesn't have the sculpting skill yet. :) So for now, 'ooh, I turned the cinder block into a cinder blob!'. Once he learns to sculpt, he could turn the cinder block into a cinder wheel or a cinder statue or a cinder christmas tree.

5) No attacker is considered to be attacking "From Behind". Attackers do not get Multiple Attacker Bonuses when using teamwork. This is automatic and requires no action on your character's part.

6) Hoist is to lift up big things and not break them. So if you try to pick up a car without it you're going to end up ripping a tire/axel off or a door off. With it, you can pick up the car and throw it without it tearing apart in your hands on picking it up.

7) Picky picky...

Mostly, there are a few things wonky, I'll get that looked into once home. Atm, her disads went weird. I was wanting to buy up to 28 con, so there's a bit of xp Mia that I need to ferret out. Will see!

28 is a bit high for an projector. Most bricks start out in that range. I'd say 23 is more than high enough for a projector. Remember, if you guys turn this into a race about defense/con then people who don't buy brick defenses will get plastered into goo (say, Vi or Rocket for example).

Very cool. Thanks for the revamp.

Cheers

@Rocket - One thing I forgot, with the new Winding Trail, you can't hit the same person over and over again, because hitting the same target multiple times requires autofire. Basically, you want to be in a target rich environment. Against a single big bad, you're better off doing a single high velocity move-by with more dice.

Remember, if you guys turn this into a race about defense/con then people who don't buy brick defenses will get plastered into goo (say, Vi or Rocket for example).

Please, especially since we are in a game with the lethality switch set to "Yes," do not start that arms race.

It never ends well, and it usually takes the life of the character that first stepped on the treadmill.

MDT: With 4 points to the Base, and reducing Teamwork back to 8-, that puts Violet back at 378, not 380.

That keeps the skills she's been working on (KS: Business Administration, KS: Superhuman World, and Deduction) and improves them.

Since I usually only spend XP on things that I've actively worked on in character, these will more than suffice.

I've updated my own .hdc to reflect that, so if you want to do the same on yours, we should be good to go. Once you clear everything, I'll update the version on my linked PDF.

Actually, it usually takes the life of the person who refused to get on the treadmill. I had a game where someone played a race with 2 points of Natural Armor, full plate, tower shield, and put all their money into ring of deflection, amulet of natural armor, and jingassa of the fortunate soldier and a couple of other things to boost AC. At level 10 they had like a 45 AC or something insane like that, and the next highest was 27. Then the person got upset when I stopped attacking him with melee attacks and only attacked him with spells.

"Let me see, I have a scaley guy with obvious hard skin, behind a tower shield, in full plate male, who glows like a nuclear reactor to detect magic, and it's all armor stuff. I have 5 other targets who are wearing, at most, a breast plate. Would you waste time on the slow turtle, or would you fire at the guys not in 120 lbs of metal and let the mage roast him in his armor with fireballs, lightning strikes (yay call lightning and metal armor!) or with multiple casts of magic missile?"

"Well, you could have some really skilled guy decide to take me on..."

"The really skilled guy is going to ignore you, and slaughter the 2 obvious spellcasters with 20 AC, the bard girl with 22 AC, the monk looking dude with 23, and the ranger with 27. Then, he's going to get his 3 surviving friends to surround the big turtle in armor and slaughter it..."

"Why would he do that? You shouldn't use GM knowledge of how hard I am to hit!"

"When I put you up against five guys last week, two casters, two guys in breast plate, and a fighter in full plate with a heavy shield, who did you guys attack first?"

"Uhm.. the casters...." <Sheepish reply>

"And next?"

"The breast plate guys..."

"And last?"

"The guy in the armor..."

@Violet - Changes made on my end, you're good to go.

Done. Just uploaded a new version to the same URL. It'll say "Sep 2016" when my link is clicked, but I assure you, it's Mar 2017.

That's because G-Drive's version control never changes document titles, even when you tell it to.

@MDT: The problem with me buying 28 con being a problem is that I've... pretty much spent every fight plastered across a wall if anything showed any interest in me, hence buying more con. I'm selling other stats it feeds into to buy it, but alright. I don't mind having more points, and if you don't think I'll be a chew toy constantly, I'm cool with where it is.

How much would it cost to buy a 'rapid' trick like Rocket's, but targeting Int skills instead? Something like "Overclocked". :P Would this affect her ability to keep up with radio waves around her, or should I explicitly buy the rapid modifier for my radio senses for this?

On that same line, more languages just seems like a good call.

How would you build a 'clairvoyance' power that's basically her using localized camera networks to keep tabs on a location?

Will Pulse be able to buy a flight effect within her Ferrokinesis Multipower down the line? The plan was ground-gliding into flight by adding more metal to her outfit to pull herself around, further down the line, with 'Ferrokinesis' as the special effect.

Would it be possible to buy a 'permanent online connection', preferably that doesn't ping things every time we get teleported somewhere?

@Mud: I've always read your name as Adam Storm. But I feel like I read you correcting us once before...

Overclocked would be the exact same as Rockets, depends on how many skill bonus levels you want. Using skill levels gets your mental only skills to take less time (that is, you can program faster, deduce faster, do math faster, etc). If it requires physical activity as well, you'd get less effect. It wouldn't affect your ability to keep up with radio waves, for that you would want to buy Rapid on your senses.

Clairvoyance on cameras could be bought as Clairvoyance with a focus limitation, or it could be done with Mind Link. Given where you're going, you might want to consider using Mind Link instead, with the target minds being 'Electronic'.

Yes, you can add flight to Ferrokinesis. Do a search for 'Static Shock' to see a way magnetics can be used to fly.

You could buy a mind link with the range of 'planet' level. You'd have to IC pay $$$'s for a Satellite Uplink Dataplan. Normally you'd have to see the satellite to link using mind link, but satellites broadcast their own link, so it's basically using area of effect to set up it's own links with anyone on the ground that can link to it correctly.

Note your mind link would have the normal radio limitations (can't get a signal under ground, stopped by lots of metal, etc).

I don't understand your comment on the disad changes...

Yeah, that was sort of the idea, but more Magneto-ish than 'rides a sewer grate/cover'. I was only worried because the limited target group said that you 'couldn't lift water inside of earth with your Terrakinesis', or something to that effect.

Reading up on Ground-Gliding not really interested overall. It just doesn't add anything, especially since I can't go #Fast, without buying more running. Which... would still be cool. +Inches, but gain a turnmode, cause rollerblades are cool. In a totally ironic way.

It doesn't matter, but all I see after the 'shouldn't buy +Con' that stands out are the minor typo-things.

Don't worry about updating yet, til I've finalized the other expenditures, unless you really wanna :)